October 6 - So it Begins - The Alberta Teacher Strike

[IliketoPuck]

A lot of non-productive hand wringing this morning.

MBates made a fantastic post last night exhorting us to take this moment as seriously as it is.

So, let's channel the collective anger and disappointment into something productive.

What can we do to change things in the province as a collective, here?

- Consider donating time, money, expertise to the NDP.
- Participate in public protests and recall efforts.
- Educate your family, friends, and network that traditionally votes UCP on why last nights vote matters so much.

Non-exhaustive list. But my point is, let's Wannamaker this thing.

[Harry Lime]

Individual recall petitions of MLAs are the only way out. They have to lose their majority to have an effect.

A more likely scenario are MLAs crossing the floor to Guthrie s new PC party, until the majority is lost.

[CFO]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

How do you suppose encouraging a whole bunch of good teachers to quit is going to work out for our education system? Or are you OK with kids growing up to be illiterate morons to run our province and vote? How do you think that will work out? Oh...hold on...

It's like any professional. Any good professional eventually sours if they aren't happy.

Some teachers are upset (rightly so) while others will go back and do their job.

I'm ok as a parent if teachers limit or do less/no extra curricular activities. At my kids elementary most events are put on my the parent society with zero teacher help.

[getbak]

Has the Notwithstanding Clause ever been used for a legitimately good reason and not just for ####### governments to be #######s to their citizens?

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by getbak

Has the Notwithstanding Clause ever been used for a legitimately good reason and not just for ####### governments to be #######s to their citizens?

Well, it does exist to go against the charter.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by CFO

It's like any professional. Any good professional eventually sours if they aren't happy.

Some teachers are upset (rightly so) while others will go back and do their job.

I'm ok as a parent if teachers limit or do less/no extra curricular activities. At my kids elementary most events are put on my the parent society with zero teacher help.

Why do you support policy that makes employees miserable? Would you not want the people educating your children to be happy and well supported, or miserable and doing the bare minimum?


Further, what are they supposed to do? Throw away their education and work at Starbucks? There aren't a lot of employers in the education sphere. Oh, wait! They can get jobs at private schools! Brilliant stuff. Almost like this is part of the plan.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by getbak

Has the Notwithstanding Clause ever been used for a legitimately good reason and not just for ####### governments to be #######s to their citizens?

No, and there is almost no reason that this should even exist. I mean, the purpose is solely to let the government infringe on our Charter rights. How in the world is that a good thing?

[FacePaint]

General Strike is needed. There needs to be clear communication from Union leadership that those war chests will cover all fines. Other Unions should indicate they will not enforce the fines (police and Sheriff's). Teachers have done their part and paid the price literally! It's time for workers to walk!

[CFO]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why do you support policy that makes employees miserable? Would you not want the people educating your children to be happy and well supported, or miserable and doing the bare minimum?


Further, what are they supposed to do? Throw away their education and work at Starbucks? There aren't a lot of employers in the education sphere. Oh, wait! They can get jobs at private schools! Brilliant stuff. Almost like this is part of the plan.

I support individuals doing work they are paid for. If the work outside of instruction hours isn't paid or it burns out people on regular time then forgo it.

There are many sports that are private (soccer, baseball, hockey, basketball) that are in non school clubs. Plus this only impacts junior high and high school. What extra curricular clubs are there really in elementary which accounts for 1/2 of the grades. I don't see elementary teachers impacted by this.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by FacePaint

Other Unions should indicate they will not enforce the fines (police and Sheriff's).

That's what happened in Ontario when Ford tried to do this to school support staff a few years ago. The police refused to issue any tickets, so there wasn't much the government could do to enforce it.

[topfiverecords]

Originally Posted by fotze2

So is there school today?

"As early as Wednesday"

What the hell does that mean. That's tomorrow. Set a date you morons. #### this province.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Slava

No, and there is almost no reason that this should even exist. I mean, the purpose is solely to let the government infringe on our Charter rights. How in the world is that a good thing?

I think it's rational because no one can anticipate all future circumstances. For instance, lets say a deadly virus shows up for which we have no defences, and charter rights prevent protecting the needless deaths of millions, well, that might be a good time to use it. I'm sure we can imagine a few scenarios it does make sense.


I think we need to amend its use though. If a govenrment invokes it, they must also commit to an election within 6 months so the public can judge them on it and hold them to account. Alternatively, they can campaign on the exact bill they plan to introduce and if elected, they would not need to comply with the 6 month rule. I think that woudl give a lot of governments pause on using it.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by CFO

It's like any professional. Any good professional eventually sours if they aren't happy.

Some teachers are upset (rightly so) while others will go back and do their job.

I'm ok as a parent if teachers limit or do less/no extra curricular activities. At my kids elementary most events are put on my the parent society with zero teacher help.

It's not that simple. It's going to drive good teachers out of this province. It's going to compound an issue we already have with having a lack of teachers.

Brain Drain will be a huge red flag for this province.

The fact Smith and co. refused to negotiate with the teachers union in any meaningful way, forced them back to work through legislation (authoritarian bull#### right there), and then immediately ####ed off on a trip to avoid having to deal with any backlash is completely indefensible. She has shown her true colors time and time again. She is not a leader and she is not in it to help anyone but herself and it is about time the people of Alberta stood up this this nonsense.

If this government wanted Teachers back to work they had an entire month to negotiate. This government seems to have all the time and money in the world for #### that doesn't matter, but when it comes to things that actually matter they can't be bothered. This is exactly what happens when the people continually vote the same party into power over and over again. These people will continue to do whatever they want because they believe there is no consequences for their actions.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Point Blank

I agree with everything you said except the last sentence. Albertans saw the ####show that happened in UCP’s first term and was like “yes I think I’ll have more of that please.”

This is about as face eating leopards as a party can get and Albertans chose this, because they had theirs and therefore, no one else can.

50/54 years of Cons in power, yet apparently all the problems stem from the brief 4 year stint the NDP had years ago. The dumbest people in Canada live here, and we prove it term after term at the polls.

[iggy_oi]

Any word on where the freedom convoy is planning to park all of their trucks in protest of this government overreach?

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by CFO

I support individuals doing work they are paid for. If the work outside of instruction hours isn't paid or it burns out people on regular time then forgo it.

There are many sports that are private (soccer, baseball, hockey, basketball) that are in non school clubs. Plus this only impacts junior high and high school. What extra curricular clubs are there really in elementary which accounts for 1/2 of the grades. I don't see elementary teachers impacted by this.

Very myopic post.

There is a staggering amount of work that teacher's are not contractually obligated to do that goes into the day-to-day reality of making school function for kids.

We keep making this about teachers, and only teachers. It is far beyond that.

It is about the education quality of the next generation of Albertans. It is about creating the system that will ensure that generation becomes a high functioning and contributing part of our society, leading to increased prosperity for the province.

The bare minimum funding approach for the public system being taken by the government is unacceptable.

The fact they have used the notwithstanding clause to achieve this clearly ideological goal is abhorrent.

I will be actively using my influence and network across the city to ensure this does not go unanswered.

[marsplasticeraser]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why do you support policy that makes employees miserable? Would you not want the people educating your children to be happy and well supported, or miserable and doing the bare minimum?

This is all part of a plan to destroy public education. Think of the outcomes of this deal and it only makes sense if that is the outcome you want.


1. Disengage Teachers
The most important factor in an organizations success is the engagement of staff.

This 'negotiation' will have been incredibly demoralizing for teachers. It has been an imposition of will by a government that demonizes education. It is a negotiation that completely ignored valid concerns presented around class sizes. It will disengage teachers. Not all, but many.

What is the outcome? Think of a terrible company you worked for. They were probably constantly hiring, losing great people, and are general #### shows. This is what is the outcome of this dispute.


2. Teacher Shortages
Newly qualified teachers will look to other provinces (who are also short teachers). We will struggle to hire new teachers.

Early-career teachers in Alberta will be move to other provinces. Not all of them, but losing a few % of early-career teachers can be devastating and lead to further teacher shortages.

3. Rising Wage Cost
The Govt will complain that we have a top-heavy teacher force, as older teachers will stay in Alberta due to pension and wage structure.

Next Contract
The next round of negotiations will have the CBE in shambles, struggling to hire teachers and with high average wages. The Govt will then allocate more money to private education.

It's just so predictable.

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think it's rational because no one can anticipate all future circumstances. For instance, lets say a deadly virus shows up for which we have no defences, and charter rights prevent protecting the needless deaths of millions, well, that might be a good time to use it. I'm sure we can imagine a few scenarios it does make sense.


I think we need to amend its use though. If a govenrment invokes it, they must also commit to an election within 6 months so the public can judge them on it and hold them to account. I think that woudl give a lot of governments pause on using it.

I like that but if there is some kind of super pandemic then you likely would not want to have an election call during an emergency.... it would have to wait until the emergency has ended which then gets dicey on who gets to decide that there is an emergency and when it ends?

The use of the clause should have to go to court to defend and justify it's use. Improper use should result in penalties against all MLAs who sign it and potentially remove them from office.

Another option would be that you have to have the opposition party agree to the use of the clause. Or, you need some kind of super majority (75%?).

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I like that but if there is some kind of super pandemic then you likely would not want to have an election call during an emergency.... it would have to wait until the emergency has ended which then gets dicey on who gets to decide that there is an emergency and when it ends?

The use of the clause should have to go to court to defend and justify it's use. Improper use should result in penalties against all MLAs who sign it and potentially remove them from office.

Another option would be that you have to have the opposition party agree to the use of the clause. Or, you need some kind of super majority (75%?).

The whole point of the notwithstanding clause is to avoid judicial review, so you can't have a court decide if it's use is not proper. It is, by definition, permissible.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

I think it's rational because no one can anticipate all future circumstances. For instance, lets say a deadly virus shows up for which we have no defences, and charter rights prevent protecting the needless deaths of millions, well, that might be a good time to use it. I'm sure we can imagine a few scenarios it does make sense.


I think we need to amend its use though. If a govenrment invokes it, they must also commit to an election within 6 months so the public can judge them on it and hold them to account. Alternatively, they can campaign on the exact bill they plan to introduce and if elected, they would not need to comply with the 6 month rule. I think that woudl give a lot of governments pause on using it.

I understand that, and that is fair. But the extremely broad-based application and no recourse are enormous problems. While there could be a case where it's applicable, suspending charter rights should only be in extreme or sever situations. I'm sorry, but a labour dispute for a few weeks hardly qualifies.