CP Mafia 2 - Town Square Showdown - Game Over

[GGG]

Originally Posted by strombad

I'd be all for that.
Quite frankly, if active flips town I deserve to go, because clearly my belligerent crusading against him isn't helping the cause.

Pretty simple if you ask me. If the town wins, I win. If Active is lynched and flips mafia, I (the town) am closer to winning. In the unlikely case Active flips town and I'm the next to go home, I'm still probably closer to winning, considering the town gets out someone who has been trying to get out one specific townie for multiple days.

Or hey, do me first, and when I flip town let it make you all that much more comfortable in going after Active.

To me this whole kill me first than the other guy scummy behaviour or at least bad strategy. Everyone has to say yes to it because if you don't say yes to the swap you look scummy. Anyone who wants to reduce town numbers regardless of reason is playing to the mafia position.

If you go back and look at Delgars suspicion of HD he didn't say why. But one of the things HD did was challenge him to a death swap. Not that I suspect HD right now but I think the whole death swap thing works out badly for us. At best your sacrifice would net us 1 kill and 1 death, at worst 2 deaths.

So in general I guess I would like to see the death pacts stopped because in seems pretty anti town

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Completely

Go find the post, you should go see it before assuming we are blood hungry

I only read others talking about him saying night kill and thought maybe slip up. In context after reading the post itself, it sure looks damning

[Oling_Roachinen]

I want to throw out my suspicion of Starseed. He's named an awfully lot of names in the last couple days but also seems to avoid direct responsibility. First it was going with ineedanother's suggestions and now hmmhmmcamo list.

[ineedanother]

Wow, a lot of action in the early hours of day 2. I will not cast my vote for agulati as there is already like 20 votes for him.

I looked over my posts regarding the list I posted, and see that 3 of the 6 names flipped town. I was curious of 2 possibilities with the GP_Matt night kill.
1. One mafia group I'd trying to target the mafia group, after knowing there have been two townies killed, trying to kill someone from the other mafia group to help move along their game.
2. Other possibility is that one or more names remaining on my list is from a mafia group and they want us to go away from that list.

I don't know if either of these are possible, but were my thoughts after seeing his night kill. I hope this helps us get rid of se mafia players, starting with agulati today.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by starseed

How about this scenario: ineedanother uses his kill now to off someone on his list.

Starseed suggests that ineedanother kill someone off his list. Ineedanother's suspects at the time included:
GP_Matt
Rathji
GGG
He would later post his suspicions of:
Timbo
activeStick
hmmhmmcamo

Ineedanother chose Timbo to kill who ends up being townsperson. GP_Matt and hmmhmmcamo have ended up being townsperson as well. If you were mafia so far following ineedanother's suggestions seem beneficial to the mafia (even if ineedanother's motives are pure).

First day:

Originally Posted by starseed

The mafia should know who each other are, so they will be able to get everyone on board to be active, which would increase the likelihood that we lynch a townsperson. Random is probably best.

Today:

Originally Posted by starseed

I think hmmhmmcamo posted a list of inactive players earlier in the game, that list would probably be the best to go on, as there would be less time for mafia to boost their post counts if they saw us choosing that as a potential lynching strategy.

Completely contradictory. First he says to not go after low posters because Mafia will coordinate, now he's saying following a list of inactive posters?

In addition to following ineedanother's list he's mentioned at least HalifaxDrunk, Kermitology, Rathji, transplant and hmmhmmcamo.

hmmhmmcamo's list that he know wants us to be suspicious of (despite being exact opposite what he initially said) is here.

Originally Posted by hmmhmmcamo

Players with less than 10 posts:

Baxter Renegade 2
Transplant99 2
Oling_Roachinen 3
activeStick 5
CofR 6
agulati 6
Aeneas 8

That's a lot of names Starseed wants us to look at. Yet when it comes to voting he seems, and if someone can double check, just to jump on bandwagons without getting his hands really dirty.

[dsavillian]

Originally Posted by GGG

Dsal - poster once immediately after reveal and not again

...snip...

To me this behaviour of not getting involved doesn't make too much sense. A critical event happened in the game you think you would post about it. If someone wants to you could look at their other activity on CP around that day to see if it matches with generally being inactive or just inactive in the mafia thread.

Makes sense if you are busy at work/home and there are 700+ posts of noise to wade through on day one


You are correct though, I should have had some thoughts after the big events. I chose a direction and stuck with it though, as I knew I'd be too busy to contribute much on the first day.

[starseed]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Starseed suggests that ineedanother kill someone off his list. Ineedanother's suspects at the time included:
GP_Matt
Rathji
GGG
He would later post his suspicions of:
Timbo
activeStick
hmmhmmcamo

You cut off my reservations about that idea in that it would cost us the vigilante kill in order to get a proven townie leader. That post was a response to Rathji who was spitballing an idea on how to resolve the vigilante reveal. I offered the idea as a way of going about it logically. Things were happening fast, and I wanted to slow things down and get us to solve the problem logically. There were votes still coming out for ineedanother at that point, and I was convinced that he was telling the truth.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Ineedanother chose Timbo to kill who ends up being townsperson. GP_Matt and hmmhmmcamo have ended up being townsperson as well. If you were mafia so far following ineedanother's suggestions seem beneficial to the mafia (even if ineedanother's motives are pure).

Yes, the people on that list failed, but I am still sticking with the idea of using ineedanother to lead a voting block. At the time, they were as good of a suggestion as anyone else. I was convinced Timbo was mafia the way he was supporting Rathji in applying the pressure on ineedanother. With kermitology also quickly supporting Timbo, it looked to my like a plot by the mafia to get ineedanother to crack. After the Timbo flip, I believe I admitted that my guesses were wrong, and that my kermitology suspicion may have just been incorrect.

I maintain that I disagree that it is a bad strategy to follow ineedanother's lead, but like I mentioned earlier, we need to act slower and more deliberately. My early vote on agulati was to apply pressure to look for cracks, and I knew it was safe because hammer could not be reached for a day and a half at that point.

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

First day:

Today:

Completely contradictory. First he says to not go after low posters because Mafia will coordinate, now he's saying following a list of inactive posters?

Yes, that suggestion was a shift in strategy. This was because our earlier methods of choosing lynch nominees failed. It is also because looking through past posts of the victims, I noticed at least GP_Matt talk about the success of the method of choosing inactive players to lynch in the last game. Other posters were starting to push the idea again, so I thought the most logical way of going about it is to use the list that hmmhmmcamo gave earlier in the game. That way there is less chance the mafia had time to correct their post counts. (and that it wasnt a pro-mafia cutoff point)

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

In addition to following ineedanother's list he's mentioned at least HalifaxDrunk, Kermitology, Rathji, transplant and hmmhmmcamo.

hmmhmmcamo's list that he know wants us to be suspicious of (despite being exact opposite what he initially said) is here.


That's a lot of names Starseed wants us to look at. Yet when it comes to voting he seems, and if someone can double check, just to jump on bandwagons without getting his hands really dirty.

I mentioned my reasoning for HD before, his defensiveness earlier was somewhat of an outlier compared to other people's reactions. He also voted for ineedanother after his reveal. I was very suspect of people who piled on the votes for ineedanother without giving him time. He and hmmhmmcamo were on my list because their votes were pressuring ineedanother to act hastily. And again, I retracted my suspicion of kermitology after the Timbo flip.

[Timbo]

*---Dead Post---*
I find that, in death, I have more time for real life.

Cheers
Timbo

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by starseed

You cut off my reservations about that idea in that it would cost us the vigilante kill in order to get a proven townie leader. That post was a response to Rathji who was spitballing an idea on how to resolve the vigilante reveal. I offered the idea as a way of going about it logically. Things were happening fast, and I wanted to slow things down and get us to solve the problem logically. There were votes still coming out for ineedanother at that point, and I was convinced that he was telling the truth.

You still made the suggestion. You didn't say "let's slow this down and discuss things" you pretty much said how about wasting your vigilante kill? Discussing it's disadvantages is something a Mafia would be just as likely to do to cover their tracks.

Originally Posted by starseed

Maybe we give it the night to see if someone else claims to be the vigilante, then if no one comes forward, you pick one of those three to lynch, then we could have you kill off one of the remaining two if necessary, or hold off for more info. Provided that the doctor is paying attention and makes sure to save you over night.

Here's again you trying to get rid of 2 of the initial 3 people ineedanother suggested (GP_Matt, Rathji, GGG I believe) even before his reveal. A Mafia member who's group don't include those 3 people (and the players later named by ineedanother) are super happy to continuously push voting with ineedanother. It gives them an out as it's ineedanother's vote and they were just jumping with a proven townsperson while at the same time casting suspicions on those who wont blindly vote with ineedanother, who he himself has said is green at the game. Ineedanother's motives are obviously good but unless he's actually outing mafia following him like you are proposing could be at a huge cost to the town.

I maintain that I disagree that it is a bad strategy to follow ineedanother's lead

I've never really said it's a bad strategy, it's dependent. The problem was ineedanother had already listed his suspicions so there was no disadvantage to mafia jumping on board unless it included their own. You've been pushing to follow his list in multiple posts so it's a bit worrisome when so many people on his list are ending up as town. And again ineedanother is new to the game by his own admission, he might be confirmed town but having a new player lead the charge to find mafia could easily be in their best interest.

I'm just suggesting the more people that ineedanother's initial lists that end up as townsperson the more you should be come a target. Now if these last couple members end up being mafia from both sides then I would probably trust 100%.
-------------------------------------------------------------


As for Agulati, I'm leaning more towards him making a slip than being a Mafia. If he is Mafia he's kicking himself in the head and going to go down as the stupidest player by far this game except maybe me for defending him but I think he's a townsperson. Jumping on him for what could be a mistake is in the Mafias interest as we don't really learn anything this day. I don't see why we need to have more votes than the hammer on him at this time. If we are still convinced tomorrow why not just vote tomorrow?

[Mazrim]

Vote Count:

With 26 alive, it takes 14 votes on any one player to hammer. It takes 9 votes to deadline lynch.

Hasn’t Voted (5): agulati, Crazy Bacon Legs, ineedanother, activeStick, Oling_Roachinen

Voting:

agulati (21): CaptainCrunch, starseed, Hockeyguy15, Aeneas, dsavillian, devo22, undercoverbrother, DropIt, Lego Man, kermitology, bizaro86, CofR, HalifaxDrunk, Baxter Renegade, Rathji, Completely, strombad, transplant99, GGG, flameswin, Street Pharmacist

Deadline is Saturday, May 10th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time. Hammer cannot be dropped before Tuesday, May 6th at 10:00 PM Mountain Time.

[jayswin]

Activestick with the no vote. Why does he keep doing things to reinforce strombad's obsession?!

[kermitology]

Something is bothering me. 21-0 voting for agulati.. Doesn't that seem overly lopsided?

[GGG]

As for Agulati, I'm leaning more towards him making a slip than being a Mafia. If he is Mafia he's kicking himself in the head and going to go down as the stupidest player by far this game except maybe me for defending him but I think he's a townsperson. Jumping on him for what could be a mistake is in the Mafias interest as we don't really learn anything this day. I don't see why we need to have more votes than the hammer on him at this time. If we are still convinced tomorrow why not just vote tomorrow?

This is interesting if Agulati is mafia and we leave him alive and we lynch a townie the numbers going into day 3 are 4 M1, 4M2 15 town. Since the mafia doesn't have any special powers the town is still up 15 - 8 and you can always kill Agulati later. Essentially he would become a lame duck and we wouldn't consider his opinion. So I don't think there is immediate harm in not voting Agulati.

So if we were to Lynch someone else today what would we learn?

I actually like the idea of voting activestick today. Our cop shouldn't waste an investigation on Agulati as we just put him on the to kill later list and by killing Activestick we either kill Mafia, kill an inactive player, or kill a townie which would implicate Stombad, legoman and possibly hockey guy.

Unvote
Vote: Activestick

[GGG]

Quote screwed up, should have been from oling ranchmen.

[activeStick]

I am going to cast my vote for agulati...

Vote: agulati

[agulati]

Just vote me out if you think I am mafia. I have pushed myself to the corner with my honest slip. Even if I survive the night, my days are numbered. And this will just create further tension. Atleast when I am dead, the town can realize I was a fellow townie and try and focus on getting the real mafia.
Avoid mob mentality after today guys. Try and hash out a true target. Having differing opinions will not necessarily make you look like a mafia if you can back up your reasoning. Otherwise it is easy for the two mafias to push our hands

I stick by my original list though.

After seeing the posts I am going to cast my vote
Vote: Transplant99
he just seems to be piling on without providing much of value in his posts

[agulati]

Also I find activeStick to be quite fishy. He is following last game's pattern, of letting the town self destruct. It is only two days though. Early to detect a solid enough pattern

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by kermitology

Something is bothering me. 21-0 voting for agulati.. Doesn't that seem overly lopsided?

Not really. Mafia can only control 4 votes. If mafia are involved, it would really only be the early momentum, but this one is due to a slip up.

For me, nothing said seems to really point to mafia so far, except agulati's "slip up". Having said that, a slip up is totally plausible.

There is literally nothing else to go on. People looking for patterns on day two are only song what they want to see, it's not there yet. That'll come in the days ahead when we have voting history to go on

[activeStick]

Let's take up strombad's suggestion later and lynch him. I'm fairly sure he's Mafia.

[HalifaxDrunk]

Originally Posted by starseed

I mentioned my reasoning for HD before, his defensiveness earlier was somewhat of an outlier compared to other people's reactions. He also voted for ineedanother after his reveal. I was very suspect of people who piled on the votes for ineedanother without giving him time. He and hmmhmmcamo were on my list because their votes were pressuring ineedanother to act hastily.

This is a couple times you brought up your opinion of me. Your reasons are always pretty weak. My defensiveness was different from other peoples? Wow is your reason is that I'm an individual? HG15 called me out for a playing style I used from last game. I defended it, I'm not sure what style of defense you think I should have employed but oh well.

I laid out my reasons for pressuring ineedanother, this wasn't just a "pile on" vote. I did (and still do) believe the fact he revealed his role that early was pretty dumb, once reveled I believe a vote ASAP was the best idea. I don't believe anything more could have been learned by waiting. Protecting him was a waste of the doctor's power until it was a proven fact he was Town. Forcing the kill was in a way protecting someone else who could have been the vig in case of a lie.

If ineedanother had been lying and someone else was the vig they would not have had to identify themselves right away. It would have been easier for them to allow the lynch of the liar and then continue on with their identity still hidden and power still intact.

Yes, you have my attention. Your name goes on my list....

• Joffrey Baratheon
• Cersei Lannister
• Tywin Lannister
• Gregor "the Mountain" Clegane
• The Red Woman
• Sandor "the Hound" Clegane
• starseed