The Alison Redford transgressions thread. Update- Redford quits.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I think policies you have listed above would have devastating effects upon the economy in this province and turn us into a have-not state nearly overnight.

I feel reducing spending is the most significant issue facing the province. I think a great start to reducing spending would be instituting the 25 cost saving measures proposed by the Wildrose Party. I think recognizing that almost all of the increased spending over the past 10 years has gone towards public salaries instead of improvements to the system is critical to realizing why our budget is so out of balance.

I also think we need some real leadership in changing the health care system which is clearly unsustainable in it's current form. Moving towards cheaper and much more successful systems involving parallel delivery such as in Germany and Switzerland would get my vote overnight. Unfortunately no party advocates this stance right now.

What is this based on? Is there some resource out there that says Alberta's budget deficit is due to public sector pay increases?

Is Alberta really running a deficit because of political raises?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

What is this based on? Is there some resource out there that says Alberta's budget deficit is due to public sector pay increases?

Is Alberta really running a deficit because of political raises?

Well it doesn't help that between 2000 and 2010 Alberta's Public Sector Payroll increased by 120% double of any other province

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle10507050/

I also read in a AUPE white paper the the Alberta Per Capita pay of Public Sector employees went from about 2400 to 3300 per year in the same period

So yeah if you look at that Public Service payroll is a major contributing factor to our budget issues.

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well it doesn't help that between 2000 and 2010 Alberta's Public Sector Payroll increased by 120% double of any other province

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe...ticle10507050/

I also read in a AUPE white paper the the Alberta Per Capita pay of Public Sector employees went from about 2400 to 3300 per year in the same period

So yeah if you look at that Public Service payroll is a major contributing factor to our budget issues.

How does that rank compared to other (private) salaries in the province? Look how much prices and the cost of living have increased in the province of the same period of time and compare that to other provinces.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

How does that rank compared to other (private) salaries in the province? Look how much prices and the cost of living have increased in the province of the same period of time and compare that to other provinces.

That's a great point.

Inflation in Alberta is tied almost directly with oilsands development. A couple of years ago I read a report that said if Alberta were to raise royalty rates to the point where it affected development, the short term impact would be lowered land price sales, but also lower inflation.

There was something like $50-60 billion in underclaimed oil and gas revenue between 1999 and 2009 due to reductions in royalty payments.? I was pretty floored when I read that.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Well it doesn't help that between 2000 and 2010 Alberta's Public Sector Payroll increased by 120% double of any other province

I'm very curious to know by how much private sector wages in Alberta increased compared to other provinces in the same time period.

A huge challenge facing government agencies in Alberta (at both the provincial and municipal levels) is that they have to compete for employees with a booming energy industry that pays very generously. If we want to hire competent, highly-qualified professionals to work in our public service -- and I assume we can all agree on that -- then the government has to offer competitive compensation packages comparable to what one could earn in the private sector or else nobody would want a government job. This isn't an issue faced by most other provinces, and certainly none experience it as badly as Alberta.

[Edit]
Beaten by corporatejay!

[MarchHare]

A quick Google search discovered this article from the Edmonton Journal:

http://www2.canada.com/edmontonjourn...0-c9915dc3173b

Also important to consider is the growth of private earnings, because the public service must compete with the private sector for staff. From 2001 to 2011, total provincially paid wages and salaries in Alberta increased 103.6 per cent. During this same time, total private-sector wages and salaries increased 104.5 per cent. So, total wage and salary growth in the Alberta provincial sec-tor essentially matched the growth in the private sector. Going back to 1997, the earliest comparable data available, the growth of total wages and salaries in the two sectors are, again, parallel; 169.8 per cent for the provincial public sector and 167.3 per cent for Alberta's private sector.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Huh? That doesn't make any sense at all. How could Danielle Smith balance the budget in 2012 when she wasn't premier? If she WAS premier, then we could talk about the results of her plan.

So you are basically saying it's impossible to balance the budget and we should just stop trying? Because it's impossible. And no one did it. So it can't be done?

No, as usual, Slava is saying we should ignore Redford's failure because he imagines Smith would have failed worse.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

A quick Google search discovered this article from the Edmonton Journal:

http://www2.canada.com/edmontonjourn...0-c9915dc3173b

I'd like to see those numbers in comparison to O/G production during the same time span.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Huh? That doesn't make any sense at all. How could Danielle Smith balance the budget in 2012 when she wasn't premier? If she WAS premier, then we could talk about the results of her plan.

So you are basically saying it's impossible to balance the budget and we should just stop trying? Because it's impossible. And no one did it. So it can't be done?

It makes perfect sense; the budget WR proposed would've run a deficit as well, despite promises to the contrary. So the argument is being made that if a fake, simulation of a budget can't be made to work, why should the public trust WR to get it right when the money is real?

I had a friend who was working for a Wildrose MLA campaign last election, and she was all gung-ho about the change they were most definitely going to enact. Asking a follow up question to any of the proposed solutions was met with 'um... Vote Wildrose!'.

There's several pages of people asking for policies and solutions, and your inability to provide specifics is frustrating.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I'm very curious to know by how much private sector wages in Alberta increased compared to other provinces in the same time period.

A huge challenge facing government agencies in Alberta (at both the provincial and municipal levels) is that they have to compete for employees with a booming energy industry that pays very generously. If we want to hire competent, highly-qualified professionals to work in our public service -- and I assume we can all agree on that -- then the government has to offer competitive compensation packages comparable to what one could earn in the private sector or else nobody would want a government job. This isn't an issue faced by most other provinces, and certainly none experience it as badly as Alberta.

[Edit]
Beaten by corporatejay!

That is certainly a fair comment and true, but only to a point. Many of the jobs in our public service do not compete directly with the private sector at all. Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, etc. certainly do not have direct competition from within the private sector, and instead from other provincial employers.

I'm also not entirely sure where they got their numbers, but the report they quote states that Alberta's salaries increased on average by 55% over the past decade while public salaries increased by about 77%. It also states that provincial public administration wage growth in Alberta was the second fastest of all the major categories tracked by Statistics Canada over the past decade.

Furthermore, this totally ignores the fact that the 'public' job used to be one where you might accept lower salaries in exchange for some of the 'perks' associated with them. Gold plated pension, amazing job security, and early retirement. As public wages have grown to equal and often eclipse private wages, we see the same 'extra' benefits remaining.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It makes perfect sense; the budget WR proposed would've run a deficit as well, despite promises to the contrary. So the argument is being made that if a fake, simulation of a budget can't be made to work, why should the public trust WR to get it right when the money is real?

I had a friend who was working for a Wildrose MLA campaign last election, and she was all gung-ho about the change they were most definitely going to enact. Asking a follow up question to any of the proposed solutions was met with 'um... Vote Wildrose!'.

There's several pages of people asking for policies and solutions, and your inability to provide specifics is frustrating.

I'm not sure how you can conclude a past budget would have run a deficit when it wasn't instituted. It's kind of like saying well if Jarome played on the Bruins last year they would have won the cup. Really?

As for policies I would like to see, I offered some suggestions a few posts back. If you care to offer some of your own I'd love to see them?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, as usual, Slava is saying we should ignore Redford's failure because he imagines Smith would have failed worse.

No, all I'm pointing out is that The Wildrose put their budget out this year and it didn't balance either. Just my opinion, but if you can't even make up the figures and get it to balance then what chance do you have when you're actually government?

Its amusing to me that this party who is somehow considered the pinnacle of fiscal conservatism couldn't make that work though.

[oilyfan]

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...board/follows/

Alison Redford rubbed people the wrong way. She alienated the voting public, her grassroots support base and even her own party. She was called remote, uncommunicative, even bullying. She played fast and loose with travel expenses.

But the exiting Alberta premier’s successor, whomever that turns out to be, can be thankful that Ms. Redford’s premature political demise hasn’t featured an economic shambles to go with the political one. Whatever missteps led to the premier’s resignation less than two years after she was elected, messing up the economy wasn’t among them.

Still, even though it’s an accounting smoke-and-mirrors act that represents a step backward in transparent government financial reporting, it doesn’t change the broader narrative – that Alberta has essentially wiped out its deficit under Ms. Redford’s watch. Royal Bank of Canada senior economist Robert Hogue calculated that if you reverted the province’s latest numbers to its old budget presentation, it would have posted a tiny $335-million deficit for fiscal 2014, and would be headed for a surplus of $1.1-billion in fiscal 2015 – a swift turnaround from fiscal 2013’s $2.8-billion deficit.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I'm not sure how you can conclude a past budget would have run a deficit when it wasn't instituted. It's kind of like saying well if Jarome played on the Bruins last year they would have won the cup. Really?

As for policies I would like to see, I offered some suggestions a few posts back. If you care to offer some of your own I'd love to see them?

You can conclude it because its on their website today. Surely you've looked and read the website right? Its not like it took a lot of digging to see that there is a deficit...just keep reading the whole page and at the bottom its a negative number. I know its a tough concept...

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

I'm not sure how you can conclude a past budget would have run a deficit when it wasn't instituted. It's kind of like saying well if Jarome played on the Bruins last year they would have won the cup. Really?

As for policies I would like to see, I offered some suggestions a few posts back. If you care to offer some of your own I'd love to see them?

I have no dog in this fight. I don't think I voted PC or WR last election (it was a very forgettable experience for me). But here's how it breaks down for me.

The PCs seem like they would do a semi-competent to competent job if they got out of their own way and had some proper leadership. Wildrose seems like it doesn't know things.

Given the choice between the two of you, the PCs are the seasick crocodile.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

That is certainly a fair comment and true, but only to a point. Many of the jobs in our public service do not compete directly with the private sector at all. Doctors, Nurses, Teachers, etc. certainly do not have direct competition from within the private sector, and instead from other provincial employers.

I'm also not entirely sure where they got their numbers, but the report they quote states that Alberta's salaries increased on average by 55% over the past decade while public salaries increased by about 77%. It also states that provincial public administration wage growth in Alberta was the second fastest of all the major categories tracked by Statistics Canada over the past decade.

Furthermore, this totally ignores the fact that the 'public' job used to be one where you might accept lower salaries in exchange for some of the 'perks' associated with them. Gold plated pension, amazing job security, and early retirement. As public wages have grown to equal and often eclipse private wages, we see the same 'extra' benefits remaining.

I don't live in Alberta any more, so I can't comment on the situation there. However, if it is remotely like the situation in Ontario, those benefits (pension, job security, and early retirement) have been significantly eroded (that is probably understating things.)

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by oilyfan

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...board/follows/

But the Wildrose Party would have done it faster!

[Dion]

Listened to the Hancock presser and he sounded like a clone of Redford. Didn't believe in polls, family members are okay to travel with cabinet ministers on flights etc....

I sure hope isn't planning on running for the leadership.

[RedHot25]

Hancock said he is not running - likely why he was chosen as interim leader.

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

Categorizing taxes in Alberta as the boogeyman is a big exaggeration and shows an ignorance and out of touchness with the average Alberta voter.

#totesjealous

You are a public finance guru now too!