2011 Canadian Election Thread

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by Ark2

of course they were going to try and give themselves all the credit, that's just politics.

Yup, and since they're giving themselves all the credit for the spending it's only fair that they get all the blame for the debt. It's an inverse relationship they can't have one without other.

Originally Posted by Hesla

Or at least ushered out and replaced by someone else that will do nothing.

Anders does something? I honestly think that Anders has a deal with the upper-ups along the lines of "don't say anything else that make us facepalm more then we already have and we'll make sure you stick around" that or he has naked pictures of someone important with the proverbial dead girl/live boy.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

I'm assuming he is talking about Anders? How about Harper and his other reform goonies not allowing anyone to run against him? or finding some loophole? Any dick could run against Anders and win if it was for the CP nomination. It's just that NO ONE can.

scary stuff people!

Nope, Stephen Harper.

I am trying to think of any main campaign promise he's actually kept?

- Senate Reform: Nope
- Won't run a deficit: Not even close.
- Fixed election dates: Broke his own law.
- Never changing taxation of income trusts: flip-flopped.

The list just goes on and on. Frankly this doesn't even mention some of the more egregious issues in my opinion. There are issues with people peddling or attempting to peddle influece, people working for the PMO who've been convicted of fraud not once but numerous times, documents that have been altered in plain sight, what appears to be the contravention of electoral laws, etc. Its really disgraceful.

I get that people are fiscally conservative and all that (and I count myself amongst those ranks), but how can you trust that any of his current promises are ever going to take place?

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Slava

Nope, Stephen Harper.

I am trying to think of any main campaign promise he's actually kept?

- Senate Reform: Nope
- Won't run a deficit: Not even close.
- Fixed election dates: Broke his own law.
- Never changing taxation of income trusts: flip-flopped.

The list just goes on and on. Frankly this doesn't even mention some of the more egregious issues in my opinion. There are issues with people peddling or attempting to peddle influece, people working for the PMO who've been convicted of fraud not once but numerous times, documents that have been altered in plain sight, what appears to be the contravention of electoral laws, etc. Its really disgraceful.

I get that people are fiscally conservative and all that (and I count myself amongst those ranks), but how can you trust that any of his current promises are ever going to take place?

Well... pick the leader that lies the least ... They all will spin things, stretch the truth, flip-flop, go back on promises... Lesser of all evils thing basically.

[Ark2]

Originally Posted by Parallex

Yup, and since they're giving themselves all the credit for the spending it's only fair that they get all the blame for the debt. It's an inverse relationship they can't have one without other.

Except that this is the real world and we know better, right? Ergo, they don't deserve all the credit/blame for either.

[IliketoPuck]

Increasing taxes will create further departures from an efficient economy, which really amounts to pulling the ripcord on our economic recovery.

All of these frivolous spending "promises" like a national day care program are the exact opposite of what would make Canada a healthier country in the long run. In my opinion the country would be best served by having tax cuts, and allowing people to spend their money as they see fit. The extra income received (and subsequently spent) from tax cuts would do more to stimulate the GDP of our country than the revenues from a tax hike.

I get that some people like their social programs, but to say that the Liberal day care plan is good for Canada is false. What it amounts to is a program that will put the whole country further into debt, and further from an efficient economy, while providing a marginal benefit.

The argument about whether or not to fund the military is also disingenuous. How can anyone not want our government to spend money to protect our sovereignty? I agree that there should be limits to the spending, but lets be realistic, spending money to upgrade our air force is a required expenditure (our current technology is not nearly where it needs to be), and if some of the expenditure is received by Canadian companies, which to my knowledge is what is occurring, this is something that will stimulate our economy further, and helps protect us in the future.

As you might guess I am a Conservative voter, but I have reasons for it. I think Harper has done an acceptable job running the country, and I feel more comfortable with a trained economist calling the shots than with parties that want to raise taxes and promise spending on social programs that do not promote the economic well being of the country.

[MarchHare]

I get that some people like their social programs, but to say that the Liberal day care plan is good for Canada is false. What it amounts to is a program that will put the whole country further into debt, and further from an efficient economy, while providing a marginal benefit.

Do you feel the same way about Harper's $1200/year per child wealth re-distribution program?

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

Do you feel the same way about Harper's $1200/year per child wealth re-distribution program?

I don't think it is a great idea. But I think it is a much more viable way of supporting parents than creating a new social program costing us billions of dollars a year. I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that a day care program is much more costly to taxpayers than the marginal benefit gained.

[TylerSVT]

Originally Posted by Slava

Nope, Stephen Harper.

I am trying to think of any main campaign promise he's actually kept?

- Senate Reform: Nope
- Won't run a deficit: Not even close.
- Fixed election dates: Broke his own law.
- Never changing taxation of income trusts: flip-flopped.

The list just goes on and on. Frankly this doesn't even mention some of the more egregious issues in my opinion. There are issues with people peddling or attempting to peddle influece, people working for the PMO who've been convicted of fraud not once but numerous times, documents that have been altered in plain sight, what appears to be the contravention of electoral laws, etc. Its really disgraceful.

I get that people are fiscally conservative and all that (and I count myself amongst those ranks), but how can you trust that any of his current promises are ever going to take place?

A lot of the things you posted are hard to do with a minority government. How do you reform Senate with a minority government? He didn't poke the bear to call this election, he prorogued government to prevent the last election overthrow... Your basing your ideas of #### that he had little or no control over.

Running no deficit? Hard to do when you are hit with the worst economic recession since the great depression, when oil and natural gas prices are at a very low price.

One of my professors at the university taught Harper during his grad school years and said that he gets painted this negative image by the media but is actually a pretty nice, quiet, contempt guy. I tend to agree, the one time i met Harper (back before he was PM) he seemed like a really stand up guy.

[IliketoPuck]

In the case of the $1200 subsidy, it allows the parents to spend that money how it best works for their economic situation. With a day care system, that money is tied directly to that one service.

From an economic stand point it is more efficient to allow the individual to chose what to spend the money on, than creating a program specifically designed to only provide that service.

[Bertuzzied]

We need a Nenshi-type to be PM.

[Caged Great]

It would be one thing to not fulfill his promise on Senate reform, but it's another to appoint the most senators of any prime minister in Canadian history. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

[Knut]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

It would be one thing to not fulfill his promise on Senate reform, but it's another to appoint the most senators of any prime minister in Canadian history. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

Trying to even out the Liberal domination of the senate.. .at least make it more balanced. He also has to make appointments as Senators retire/die.

I think the guys he appointed all are for term limits on Senators or abolishing it completely.

[CaptainCrunch]

I guess I'm curious to understand how Ignatieff has arrived at a billion dollars per year for his daycare program. in 2005 Quebec spent 1.4 billion on daycare, and they increased it by nearly 600 million this year to add 15,000 spaces.

I think Quebec is spending twice as much for a percentage of the spaces that the Liberals would need to create.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

We need a Nenshi-type to be PM.

Yes, someone with no experience at the job is the best choice.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Hesla

Trying to even out the Liberal domination of the senate.. .at least make it more balanced. He also has to make appointments as Senators retire/die.

I think the guys he appointed all are for term limits on Senators or abolishing it completely.

The term limits is something that Harper can control and appoint for. But I don't think that you could abolish or greatly change the Senate without reopening the Constitution.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

It would be one thing to not fulfill his promise on Senate reform, but it's another to appoint the most senators of any prime minister in Canadian history. Seems a little hypocritical to me.

He tried to reform the senate numerous times and was voted down by the appointed Liberal senators.

When the Coalition tried to grab backdoor power Harper had little choice but to use the only method he had to control the Senate and avoid the Liberals voting down everything they didn't like.

I'm not sure what else you expected him to do given the circumstances?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TylerSVT

One of my professors at the university taught Harper during his grad school years and said that he gets painted this negative image by the media but is actually a pretty nice, quiet, contempt guy. I tend to agree, the one time i met Harper (back before he was PM) he seemed like a really stand up guy.

The one time that I meant him with my father in tow, he stared at me with his yellow eyes and snarled for me to "Strike my father down and take his place by my side"

I asked him what he meant and he said that "Good and evil were merely a point a view"

I swear that Stephen Harper is the Sith Lord that we've been looking for.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Bertuzzied

We need a Nenshi-type to be PM.

Nenshi's most noticable accomplishment so far is raising taxes over 10% when he campaigned to do directly the opposite?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by IliketoPuck

I don't think it is a great idea. But I think it is a much more viable way of supporting parents than creating a new social program costing us billions of dollars a year. I understand what you are saying, but the reality is that a day care program is much more costly to taxpayers than the marginal benefit gained.

I'm with you there. The beauty of tax credits is that should you not need to encourage or discourage certain activities in the future, you just pull the credit or incentive, no one needs to be let go and paid severance or shuffled into another government department. Plus when programs are created there's a whole new level of bureaucracy that has to get fed an increasing amount of money every year. The last thing Canada needs is more unionized 9-5 timerenters with defined benefit pension plans who expect raises above the annual CPI regardless of output.

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by tylersvt

one of my professors at the university taught harper during his grad school years and said that he gets painted this negative image by the media but is actually a pretty nice, quiet, contempt guy.

heh heh

:d