Official (Alberta) Oil Discussion Thread

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Slava

It really is disappointing that no federal parties are willing to spend the political capital to get these projects going sooner rather than later. We can't expect projects like Keystone XL to get approval south of the border when we can't get things approved here though.

I don't think they'd approve pipelines if the political cost were 0.

They don't want them. The rest of the country thinks of the oil industry like a seal hunt run by rich white guys.

[Brewmaster]

With the pipeline snub coming out of Ottawa and Quebec this week combined with the new NDP royalty review to be released, this is shaping up into be quite the week for the Alberta energy business. It's hard to believe that during a time of dire need in this province our own government, at multiple levels, is actively working to make things worse. I feel like I am finally beginning to understand the pure bitterness and resentment of the previous generation who went through the oil crash and NEP in the 1980's.

[PostandIn]

Originally Posted by Brewmaster

With the pipeline snub coming out of Ottawa and Quebec this week combined with the new NDP royalty review to be released, this is shaping up into be quite the week for the Alberta energy business. It's hard to believe that during a time of dire need in this province our own government, at multiple levels, is actively working to make things worse. I feel like I am finally beginning to understand the pure bitterness and resentment of the previous generation who went through the oil crash and NEP in the 1980's.

Similar but this feels more like inexperience and idealism where what PET and that smirking idiot Marc Lalonde did felt mostly like malice.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

FWIW my neighbour has been sitting on a giant pile of USD and his view is that the CAD/oil bounce is heavy short buying and he fully expects it to slide to 60. He sustains his lavish lifestyle strictly through trading, so I respect his opinion.

When does he expect it to drop to 60 cents ?

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by PostandIn

Similar but this feels more like inexperience and idealism where what PET and that smirking idiot Marc Lalonde did felt mostly like malice.

Maybe, but I tend to think that its more ideology combined with learning at the feet of his old man about how evil Albertan's are.

I'm sure that Justin's Alberta based MP's aren't thrilled with what their boss is doing because it might mean that they become one term MP's.

[Derek Sutton]

dp

[Derek Sutton]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Maybe, but I tend to think that its more ideology combined with learning at the feet of his old man about how evil Albertan's are.

I'm sure that Justin's Alberta based MP's aren't thrilled with what their boss is doing because it might mean that they become one term MP's.

Well if they aren't they are certainly not admitting it. It's at about 1:30, and it kinda makes me want to puke. Couldn't embed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kesr...zQHzJ2r5PIRHIO

[CaptainCrunch]

Oh Kent, you just came across as an out of touch a%%.

[CroFlames]

Well, all is well in Alberta! Just come to Kents riding and ask people there.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Derek Sutton

Well if they aren't they are certainly not admitting it. It's at about 1:30, and it kinda makes me want to puke. Couldn't embed it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kesr...zQHzJ2r5PIRHIO

yeah, the burst of laughter really is the only appropriate response to that

disappointing to say the least

[CaptainCrunch]

I would expect that Kent is about to learn how wrong his assumption is.

Yes Kent, we're ok with a flattened economy and mass job losses so you guys can waste even more time in a committee studying these things.

I would expect that all the party members have been whipped to follow the Trudeau way.

This just feels like SSDT, Same sh^^ different Trudeau, at least last time a Trudeau tried to screw this province over we had a provincial government that basically tried to stand up to him.

Notley will probably print up a pair of cute sparkly T-Shirts and take some selfies with him when he shows up here next week, and they have a hug fest.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by nik-

yeah, the burst of laughter really is the only appropriate response to that

disappointing to say the least

Its the only response that could me made.

The MP that asked the question specifically mentioned the unemployment happening in her riding, and Kent basically threw it in her face with an inane answer.

At least they handled it better then Trudeau did when he called another MP a piece of sh^^ in the commons.

[stampsx2]

Trudeau is confusing.

He's a humanitarian helping those in trouble in Syria but when people in his own country are losing jobs, their houses, having trouble supporting their families he turns his back to them.

Then again, Alberta didn't vote for him so maybe he's getting his revenge as all good humanitarians do.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

Trudeau is confusing.

He's a humanitarian helping those in trouble in Syria but when people in his own country are losing jobs, their houses, having trouble supporting their families he turns his back to them.

How exactly is he turning his back on them? I think you guys are seeing this from the inside of the Alberta fishbowl a bit too much. The Liberals ran on a platform that included commitments to reducing GHGs, and better consultation with First Nations, so it's not like any of this should come as a surprise here. They would be failing their mandate if they didn't announce attempst to shake things up in those areas. Let's be honest here, these pipelines are only going to get approved if you can get a majority of Canadians behind them, not just a majority of Albertans. Even if the new review process doesn't actually do anything more than pay lip service to either of these ideals, it's still likely going to improve perception in Ontario, BC, and Quebec, which is what's going to be needed to get the pipelines approved.

I'll also just add that I have a couple of friends who work for the NEB and have complained to me in private that the review process under the Harper government was a complete joke. I obviously don't have specifics because I didn't work on it but it sounds like they were told to ignore certain, legitimate concerns that would stand in the way of approval.

I get the sense from some of you that you don't really give a rat's ass about any potential hazards to the environment or First Nations communities, you just want your pipelines built.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Intentionally delaying a $15 billion project for 2 years while hundreds of thousands of Canadians are facing job losses or already out of work is a problem. But it's okay, Trudeau would rather borrow $15 billion and spend it on inefficient government projects.

Consult with First Nations, fine. But even six months is way too long of a consultation period, especially when you're putting their needs ahead of those that are suffering right now.

A majority of provinces are behind Energy East. In fact, even the Quebec Premier is in favour of it. Why isn't the project being grandfathered?

Because it's their agenda. They are out to kill the oil sands. Call me delusional all you want, but as far as I can see, they just gave themselves more power to kill pipelines and more power to kill train terminals. Why are they concerned with the GHG emissions of oilsands, from a pipeline context? Because they want to KILL the oil sands.

I don't want to believe it, but the writing is on the wall.

Edit: I shouldn't say they want to kill the oil sands, rather they just want to stop the industry from growing any further.

Same with the Alberta NDP.

[RougeUnderoos]

I don't work in the O&G industry and don't pretend to know much about it, but it seems to me that if all the pipelines we want running out of Alberta were magically built tomorrow, our fortunes wouldn't be changing.

The price of oil wouldn't suddenly go up because we have these pipelines. It's not like the price went down because there Alberta couldn't get it out into the world.

These pipelines didn't exist when the latest boom was going boom and we did alright because the price was high. But now we are bitching and moaning and sadly whining when the price is down, and blaming it on some a$$hole in Montreal who doesn't matter at all, and both the provincial and federal government who can't do anything about it.

[CampbellsTransgressions]

Actually, if they were all built tomorrow, we would have at least $15 billion in economic stimulus.

The WTI/WCS spread would also narrow, providing just a little bit of help to oil companies that have been getting hammered by everything our beautiful progressive governments can throw at them.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CampbellsTransgressions

Intentionally delaying a $15 billion project for 2 years while hundreds of thousands of Canadians are facing job losses or already out of work is a problem. But it's okay, Trudeau would rather borrow $15 billion and spend it on inefficient government projects.

Trudeau's job isn't to find employment opportunities for Albertans at the expense of the policies he's proposing benefit Canada as a whole. Like I said, he was elected with a mandate to go after GHGs. You can debate whether his proposals actually will achieve that, but you honestly couldn't really expect him to get into office and go "Welp, nothing can be done. Better keep the status quo."

Consult with First Nations, fine. But even six months is way too long of a consultation period, especially when you're putting their needs ahead of those that are suffering right now.

Why? If it's going through their territory then they have every right to be consulted on it in a meaningful manner. Putting a time constraint on it and planning to ram it through regardless of their concerns isn't meaningful consultation. The narrative that we have the right to demand FN communities accept our pipelines is completely colonialist.

A majority of provinces are behind Energy East. In fact, even the Quebec Premier is in favour of it. Why isn't the project being grandfathered?

It isn't? Sounds like some environmental groups are upset because Energy East is getting fastracked through the new process, despite not being approved by the NEB yet.

Because it's their agenda. They are out to kill the oil sands. Call me delusional all you want, but as far as I can see, they just gave themselves more power to kill pipelines and more power to kill train terminals. Why are they concerned with the GHG emissions of oilsands, from a pipeline context? Because they want to KILL the oil sands.

It sounds like their agenda is to address the concerns leftover from the Harper days.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/envi...ines-1.3422129

The Liberals contend their Conservative predecessors interfered in the independent board's affairs in order to push pipeline projects through faster.

The government's announcement comes on the heels of a new audit report by Canada's environment watchdog that found the NEB failed to follow through and adequately track the compliance of pipeline companies with the conditions set for their projects.

Green Party Leader Elizabeth May said the current environmental review process is completely broken after 10 years of Stephen Harper as prime minister.

"We're still in the difficult space of fixing what Harper broke," May said. "It's a bogus, sham process."

The B.C. MP said that the environmental assessment process was "wrecked" when the Harper government handed regulatory review to the NEB, a body that "never" considered climate change or greenhouse gas emissions in its review of projects.

May added that the NEB has approved 98 per cent of all pipeline projects and largely ignored interveners such as environmental groups and indigenous peoples.

I know May isn't anyone's favourite but she's pretty much echoing stories I've heard from people who work for the NEB, that their hands were basically tied from doing any sort of meaningful review.

EDIT: I should add that no one is happy that Albertans are out of work, but people are not going to be willing to sacrifice their longterm visions for the future of the country because Albertans are out of work. The prevailing sentiment behind this is if you don't secure the environmental future, we're all going to be in the same boat economically speaking. Again, you can debate whether the policies proposed will actually provide environmental security, but you're not going to win a lot of support by advocating that the country does nothing because of short-term economic pains.

[stampsx2]

Originally Posted by rubecube

How exactly is he turning his back on them? I think you guys are seeing this from the inside of the Alberta fishbowl a bit too much. The Liberals ran on a platform that included commitments to reducing GHGs, and better consultation with First Nations, so it's not like any of this should come as a surprise here. They would be failing their mandate if they didn't announce attempst to shake things up in those areas. Let's be honest here, these pipelines are only going to get approved if you can get a majority of Canadians behind them, not just a majority of Albertans. Even if the new review process doesn't actually do anything more than pay lip service to either of these ideals, it's still likely going to improve perception in Ontario, BC, and Quebec, which is what's going to be needed to get the pipelines approved.

I'll also just add that I have a couple of friends who work for the NEB and have complained to me in private that the review process under the Harper government was a complete joke. I obviously don't have specifics because I didn't work on it but it sounds like they were told to ignore certain, legitimate concerns that would stand in the way of approval.

I get the sense from some of you that you don't really give a rat's ass about any potential hazards to the environment or First Nations communities, you just want your pipelines built.

Canada is it's own worst enemy.

Let the Canadian people decide. Hold a plebisite if you have to. It's a big issue affecting the majority of Canadians.

It should be up to the government to make sure Canadians know the facts on oil sands and make an informed vote. It's ridiculous that celebrities can come up here ignore the facts.

Let the Canadian people know the truth. Let them know oilsands causes 0.15% of the worlds greenhouse gasses while china and the u.s. contribute 45% of the worlds greenhouse gasses.

Let the canadian people know that alberta's coal plants produce almost the same amount of green house gases as the oil sands but bring in 166 million in revenue to the country not $5 billion.

Let them know where eastern canada imports it's oil from and the human rights records in those countries.

Let the anti pipeline people know the true impact of shipment by rail. That farmers can't get their grain shipped cause trains give oil priority.

It's sooooooooo frustrating when people base their voting desisions and personal views on anything without being informed. They vote for trends and what's popular.

Think, Canada!

[rubecube]

I actually have a bigger response for tomorrow, but I'll just leave one question because it's one I'm genuinely curious about (and apologies if someone has already answered it). Would the implementation of new pipelines actually reduce the amount of oil shipped by rail, or would it just be adding an additional avenue for more oil to be shipped?