2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Insider Trading has Frank Seravelli saying Treliving is hunting for a RW.

...yay, that will fix nothing.

There are no assets this team could give up to save the season so naturally the Flames will do just that.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Insider Trading has Frank Seravelli saying Treliving is hunting for a RW.

...yay, that will fix nothing.

So the scouting team we're relying on to find said RW also thought Josh Leivo, Dominic Simon and Joakim Nordstrom were going to be the answer...

I'm with you that it'll probably solve nothing. Based on past results, it's more than a 50/50 chance of failing. But I guess the bar has been set pretty low; what are the odds a new guy can come in and score more than 0 goals?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Wolfman

We are talking about Button aren't we?

If you had a poor manager that gave you bad direction that hindered your ability to perform and then you got a better manager that gave you the freedom to make your decisions. And as a result of that you performed better.
How would you feel if years later you were fired for your performance under that old manager?

Here's what I wrote in a different thread:
For this management team I consider 2015 their first draft. It's well known that Burke had a lot of say in the 2014. Anything before that including first round busts is irrelevant to me, if we are evaluating this current regime. Todd Button has been around but clearly his picks have been influenced by who his GM is.

So we have six drafts that we can evaluate.

From 2015 they got 2 good NHLers playing (Andersson and Eat Bread), despite not having a first. Plus Kylington.

From 2016 they got 3 NHLers (Tkachuk, Dube and Fox). Tkachuk was a no brainer but Dube and Fox were great picks that would re-draft in the first round.

From 2017 they've got 1 NHLer (Valimaki). Rest of the draft doesn't look good except perhaps Ruzicka

2018 - too soon to evaluate given picks were 4th or later. Strong potential shown by Pettersen, and Zav for where they were drafted
2019/2020 simply too soon.

So the assessment of the first 3 drafts, it looks good. To understand where one would place them in the NHl you would have to look at average returns for those same drafts relative to number of picks and position. That's a lot of work that I don't have the time to do.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Insider Trading has Frank Seravelli saying Treliving is hunting for a RW.

...yay, that will fix nothing.

Well we certainly need a Rw. That said ,don’t think we should be spending assets like 1sts , 2nds , prospects right now. I could live with a 3rd . What would a 3rd and Bennett get you? Don’t think that gets a 2nd line winger.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Insider Trading has Frank Seravelli saying Treliving is hunting for a RW.

...yay, that will fix nothing.

Bennett for Nichushkin. Do it.

[kukkudo]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Bennett for Nichushkin. Do it.

Would easily do this. Trade is a wash garbage out garbage in.

[Toonage]

Seravalli specified a RHS. Sorry guys.

[Hockey-and_stuff]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Bennett for Nichushkin. Do it.

Don't really see a reason for Colorado to do this trade. Nichushkin is a plus defender and produces at roughly the same rate or better.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Right, but given the fairly dramatic change from the Sutter era to today I think a more nuanced view of the draft and the scouting staff is warranted. If we are just focused on the first round under Button's tenure, then the picture looks like this:

Tod Button has been a director of scouting for the Flames under five General Managers: Craig Button (2001–2003), Darryl Sutter (2003–2010), Jay Feaster (2010–2013), Brian Burke (2013–2014) and Brad Treliving (2014–present). Here is the complete list of NHL players the Flames have drafted in the first round under each of these men's leadership while Button has been heading the scouting department:

Button: 3 for 3
Sutter: 1 for 6
Feaster: 2 for 2
Burke: 1 for 3
Treliving: 3 for 5 (but with two still playing Juniour hockey)

There appears to be one outlier there in the whole time that Button has been the Director of Scouting. It sure looks to me like your chief complaint has less to do with him, and a lot more to do with former Flames GMs.

How about making these numbers a bit more effective by weighting where these GMs drafted in the first round.

From that perspective, is sutter's backlund pick the best first round pick the flames have drafted, when compared to where in the first round, over the last 20 years?

Is Gaudreau perhaps the biggest steal of a draft pick in the last 20 years?

Brodie, backlund, Giordano, ferland.. Maybe sutter wasn't all that bad either.

Treliving's legend of building strong cores through the draft is probably amongst league average....

Outside of RFA contract negotiations, where he's done really well, everything else is just right on par for everything Calgary Flames -> mediocre.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Blaster86

He's not regressing. He's an amazing trigger man, but he's never been a guy to carry a line himself (which is why I hate him as a center). Trigger men are streaky, so it is what it is.

A trigger man playing with a premium playmaker with, what, 1 ES goal in about 40 games isn’t regressing?

OK then, just a mini slump.


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[AC]

Filip Forsberg is a RS but plays LW?

He'd be a dream though.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Treliving should have just signed Toffoli instead of spending more assets on something. Another miss, but I'm sure he was "in on him, up until the end".

[Niemo]

Monahan + Hanifin for Larkin + Mantha
Bennett + Gaudreau for Forsberg + 2nd

[mrdonkey]

Maybe we can find ourselves another top line RW on the waiver wire. Why, we could find ourselves the next Stewart, Brouwer, Neal, Robinson, or Simon! Who's next to join the carousel of players who were good enough to play with Gaudreau and Monahan but not good enough for other teams to take for free?

[Vinny01]

Treliving is finally going to bite on the Bennett for Virtanen deal.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

They wanted to move Bennett back to his natural Center position in his second season which is fine.

If anything the argument should have been why didn’t they give him Tkachuk as his winger and shelter the crap out of them.

From pretty much the get go of that season they went 3M line, and Bennett got to play with useless Troy Brouwer.

In the 16-17 season you had two young players that could have established another great pairing like Gaudreau and Monahan. Instead Gulutzan was probably too afraid to play the two young guys together and Tkachuk and Bennett played a grand total of 61 minutes together at 5v5 that year.

Tkachuk flourished playing 785 of his minutes with Backlund.

Bennett floundered playing majority of his time with Brouwer who was just an anchor. Bennett was 52% xGF without Brouwer that season, and 39% with Brouwer.

Those two key development seasons are why Bennett didn’t become they player we thought he could be. Tkachuk-Bennett-Versteeg or Tkachuk-Backlund-Bennett or Gaudreau-Monahan-Bennett could have all been tried but weren’t. Ferland only had 25 points that year so not like moving him or Chiasson off that line should have been unheard of.




This.

Gulutzan hammered Bennett on puck management and not taking too many risks with the Puck. It killed his confidence and he stopped trying to do any of the creative stuff that was part of his game. They tried to turn him into more of a North-South grinder.

And I worry the same thing is happening to Dube now. Ward benched him for taking a penalty and for his puck management. And he’s just been brutal since then looking very passive on the ice and like he’s afraid to make a mistake.

Young guys need the freedom to make a mistake and still be trusted next shift.

We can all remember fondly how many times Gaudreau gave the puck away at his own blue line yet was sent right back out there because they wanted him using his skills. The argument that these are just highlights by some is just silly since we could make a much bigger one of all of Johnny's turnovers.

I totally agree with your comment that Bennett should have played with Tkachuk and, or Johnny and Monahan. They could have used Bennett on the top line to do the heavy lifting while the other 2 focused on scoring goals and gradually eased Bennett into the offensive scheme of things.

To Bennett's disadvantage, instead of development the Flames started focusing on win now mode. I have often wondered how Johnny would have faired if he was only allowed on the 1st or 2nd line occasionally and then shifted to the forth line with Brouwer and Jankowski? How would Johnny have felt if they gave Brouwer all the pp time while Johnny was sheltered and not used? Would that have affected his confidence, would he have asked for a trade?

While he struggled with his confidence and lousy line-mates, I bet we would be polarizing Johnny for not being a good player and always turning over the puck! The Flames thought they could stick Bennett on the 3 or 4th line and have a pretty good player without having to pay him! Just my opinion! Brutal!

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Niemo

Monahan + Hanifin for Larkin + Mantha
Bennett + Gaudreau for Forsberg + 2nd

Why does Detroit trade the guy they are building around?

Forsberg has more trade value than Johnny due to extra term. And Bennett isn’t worth more than a 2nd.

You’ve done a decent job identifying players Calgary can use. You just haven’t considered the needs of the other team.


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[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Maybe we can find ourselves another top line RW on the waiver wire. Why, we could find ourselves the next Stewart, Brouwer, Neal, Robinson, or Simon! Who's next to join the carousel of players who were good enough to play with Gaudreau and Monahan but not good enough for other teams to take for free?

Sorry. As always, priority and assets will be put towards getting a plethora of depth d, as losing dmen for all those long playoff runsis what actually keeps treliving awake at night.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

Treliving should have just signed Toffoli instead of spending more assets on something. Another miss, but I'm sure he was "in on him, up until the end".

These are the takes I generally disagree with. Toffoli, at the end of his LA days was a third line player who was slow, without finish, but grinded it out. He’d be a third liner on most teams. He very likely signed at a discount to go to his favourite team, Montreal. He’s exceeded expectations dramatically and found a new life. There was little indication at the time this would happen. In hindsight, great, but I generally agreed with passing on him given his past performance and higher salary he’d have demanded on any other team but Montreal.

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by fleury

These are the takes I generally disagree with. Toffoli, at the end of his LA days was a third line player who was slow, without finish, but grinded it out. He’d be a third liner on most teams. He very likely signed at a discount to go to his favourite team, Montreal. He’s exceeded expectations dramatically and found a new life. There was little indication at the time this would happen. In hindsight, great, but I generally agreed with passing on him given his past performance and higher salary he’d have demanded on any other team but Montreal.

He was a PPG player in Vancouver too. I think LA was just a bad team.