The New American Politics thread

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

That's literally not anything close to what I've said. My argument is simple: religion fills a psychological need.

Go back and re-read your original post, and what I wrote in response, and you'll see that this is a change in what you were suggesting. However, if this is your argument now, then we completely agree - religion fills more than one psychological need, actually. Those needs can be filled without religion, and without the negative baggage that religion carries with it, but I do agree. In fact I'd suggest reading "The Righteous Mind" by Jon Haidt, and "Everybody is Wrong About God" by James Lindsay, both of which contain some fantastic insights into what religion does for people and how these things can be achieved without superstitious dogma. Honestly, I think if Haidt was required reading in first year University the entire political climate of the United States would be miles better than it is.

Now that I've broken the cardinal rule of discourse internet forums by telling someone what books they should read... I thought that was a very good speech, but not his best. I thought it was a bit long and lagged in the middle. Of course, when it's Obama, we're grading on a ridiculously tough curve.

The main thing I'm struck by is how much stronger the message has been, and how much more inspiring it's been, this entire week as compared with last week. Although the unruly crowd has been a bit of a problem, it's mostly been pretty smooth sailing. Although, damn guys, it's the President, show some respect and shut up while he's talking, right?

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Erick Erickson ‏@EWErickson
I started the evening saying for the first time I thought Trump could win. Then Obama spoke. I’m so angry at my own party right now.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Ignoring the delivery, the content was pretty bold for a sitting President to go after the other party's nominee like that. Ultimately he pulled it off for the most part, because he knows how to use the right language, and he throws in big soaring lines as well to really draw you in. I actually still think I liked Biden more tonight, but Hillary has some seriously tough acts to follow tomorrow, unlike Trump who only had to outshine his son.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Ideology of the Republican and Democratic parties have swapped since Lincoln was around. Lincoln would likely be a Democrat if he existed in current times.

I know but usually when the Dems invoke their patron saints they go with Kennedy and the New Deal. Instead they are going after the republicans saints to really go with the Donald Trump isn't a republican so if you have old republican values maybe take a look at us.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by driveway

I made no claims one way or the other about Trump's racism or lack thereof. I'm simply saying that your willfully obtuse and pedantic argument about the semantic definitions of "race" and "racism" is stupid. You know it's stupid, and you're only clinging to the stupidity because you enjoy being argumentative without substantially progressing an idea or a debate. You're being stupid. Skippy.

listen Sport, if you're not making claims about anything, then I think you are the one not pushing the debate forward.

I'm trying to clarify a point that is rather import to the current discourse.

[nik-]

I think the one thing I would have changed about Obama's speech is the placement of one of his statements. He said, paraphrasing, "Americans don't fear the future, we shape it", but he tucked it in the middle of a couple of other sentences. That should have been a defining punctuation on the end of one of his speech sections. Or even at the end as a closer.

[wittynickname]

Originally Posted by GGG

I know but usually when the Dems invoke their patron saints they go with Kennedy and the New Deal. Instead they are going after the republicans saints to really go with the Donald Trump isn't a republican so if you have old republican values maybe take a look at us.

Which, given that the GOP and Trump appear to have abandoned a lot of those values, isn't a terrible idea if they want to pull over independents or disillusioned Republicans.

[Drak]

[GGG]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Which, given that the GOP and Trump appear to have abandoned a lot of those values, isn't a terrible idea if they want to pull over independents or disillusioned Republicans.

And somehow doing that while wooing the Bernie or bust folks in the same speech is such an amazing degree of difficulty.

[Drak]

I'm going to miss Obama and Biden.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by wittynickname

Which, given that the GOP and Trump appear to have abandoned a lot of those values, isn't a terrible idea if they want to pull over independents or disillusioned Republicans.

yup a person like me would be one such person. Disillusioned Republican

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I'm watching FOX News, even they are saying how great a speech that was.

Really? Who was that?

I have it on the other screen on mute and it's Sean Hannity talking to Newt Gingrich. I can only imagine what they're spewing and don't care to hear it.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Really? Who was that?

I have it on the other screen on mute and it's Sean Hannity talking to Newt Gingrich. I can only imagine what they're spewing and don't care to hear it.

They switched over to Hanity at 10:00 and it's just garbage now. But before that was Megyn Kelly, Bret Bair, Juan Willams and they loved the speech.

I think Megyn Kelly really really hates Trump. She'll probably vote for Hillary and will be off Fox News within a year.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

They switched over to Hanity at 10:00 and it's just garbage now. But before that was Megyn Kelly, Bret Bair, Juan Willams and they loved the speech.

I think Megyn Kelly really really hates Drumpf. She'll probably vote for Hillary and will be off Fox News within a year.

It's probably blasphemy, but I actually like Megyn Kelly quite a lot. I totally disagree with you about her leaving Fox - I gather that Fox sees her as the future standard bearer for their network and I think that bodes very well for the national discourse as she takes over in that role from O'Reilly. Obviously, she's a hell of a lot better than he is, even recognizing that he's mellowed out somewhat over the past couple of years.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

It's probably blasphemy, but I actually like Megyn Kelly quite a lot. I totally disagree with you about her leaving Fox - I gather that Fox sees her as the future standard bearer for their network and I think that bodes very well for the national discourse as she takes over in that role from O'Reilly. Obviously, she's a hell of a lot better than he is, even recognizing that he's mellowed out somewhat over the past couple of years.

I don't think they'll let her be herself, it'll lose ratings.
That may change if Trump loses by an absolute landslide.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

I dunno, I mean, she's a Fox pundit, so "herself" is still pretty right wing. It's just far more bearable than others in that category. I can watch her. I cannot watch Hannity.

[Drak]

How can anyone stomach watching Fox News? It's not even watchable for the LOLs.

[kerriffic]

Lol

[Red Ice Player]

Originally Posted by Buster

listen Sport, if you're not making claims about anything, then I think you are the one not pushing the debate forward.

I'm trying to clarify a point that is rather import to the current discourse.

Then I'll jump in. Trump is a racist. You seem to forget or are just ignoring the whole birther narrative he was pushing. The birther business was totally race driven. Or are you going to claim that birtherism would have happened even if Obama was white? If you believe that, you are the ultimate Trump apologist.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Red Ice Player

Then I'll jump in. Trump is a racist. You seem to forget or are just ignoring the whole birther narrative he was pushing. The birther business was totally race driven. Or are you going to claim that birtherism would have happened even if Obama was white? If you believe that, you are the ultimate Trump apologist.

I have no interest in defending Trump's history nor his policies. As an authoritarian his ideology shares little with mine.

My claim here is simply that Trump's comments on Mexico and Muslim Immigration are not racist...and to claim otherwise is to simply participate in the confirmation bias machinations of his opposition. I find it annoying because it just adds to reducing the level of discourse even further and is responsible for the same type of partisan driven vitriol that both sides spew to try to impact the Other Team.

I'm more interested in the issues, and policy (in Trump's case bad or absent) policy, than trying to create a divisiveness through caricature-izing your opponent. It's a low form of political argument.