[Trade] Flames trade Tanev (double retention) to Dallas for 2nd, cond. 3rd, Grushnikov

[CalgaryFan1988]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

That was what the question from GioforPM was though, that they wanted to see the flow chart of the trade, and you said they were over complicating it.

They weren't, the way the trade is filed with the NHL is as three separate trades.

Fair enough, thanks.

[Atodaso]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

I thought I heard/read that 50% is the max that one team is allowed to do?

Technically he was traded to New Jersey first with 50% retained. Then New Jersey traded him to Dallas 50% retain totaling 75% retained

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

I dont think Conroy has anything to worry about….Tanev is the UFA. He lost nothing even if these picks dont turn out

He got what the market was willing to pay more or less

Exactly we could have lost these players for nothing. People are complaining now even though Conroy is getting something back. It makes you wonder if Conroy would have gotten a first for Johnny Gaudreau. The Flames have changed how they do business., They are getting something back. What are we complaining about we got nothing for Gaudreau, or Brodie.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Not much here but Scott Bakula (sp?) was just on the FAN talking about the trade and he said he slots Grushnikov ahead of the Kuznetsov/Solovyov duo of Russian Dmen that the Flames currently have.
He also mentioned that he thinks of him as a potential 4-5 at the NHL level.

??? Scott Bakula is an NHL analyst now? What can't he do?

Spoiler!

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Bingo

He waited 5 weeks.

The first didn't happen.

They moved on it.

Biggest clue to me that this is the best type of offer out there was that Vancouver didn’t beat it.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Yes I saw that, just got home and read the title of this thread and thought NJ retained 75%

Any explanations on why the Flames didn’t retain the whole thing and get the extra 4th pick? Only few weeks left.

Yes. The CBA forbids it.

[Wastedyouth]

I think when you have a vision for what your team is going to be in 2-3 years, you look at roles players need to be in to succeed.

You need scorers who can excel both on the rush but also on the cycle after a dump and chase.

You need defenders who can move the puck, but also willing to throw their body around against a hard forecheck or on the PK.

Every prospect can't just be a guy who produved a signifiance amount of points in Junior/Lower levels. those guys don't PK. They don't throw their bodies around (typically).

If you dont have defined roles and character players on your team, you end up like teams who seem to get very high grades at the draft and in various prospect ranking, and yet never go anywhere in the playoffs or set themselves apart in the regular season.

Tampa, Vegas, St Louis all had role player D and forwards who did the things the high skilled, PP/5v5 players won't or couldn't do.

Is Grushnikov one of these? Who knows. But he's another lottery ticket for that type of player and that is exactly what this franchise needs. Picks and options at every role.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Atodaso

Technically he was traded to New Jersey first with 50% retained. Then New Jersey traded him to Dallas 50% retain totaling 75% retained

Yes. But that doesn't change anything I said - the flames, themselves, retained as much as they could.

[Hot_Flatus]

Like the deal or not, Conroy has vastly improved the defensive prospect depth of this organization in the last 8 or so months that he's been on the job. The Flames have gone from having maybe 1-2 legitimate prospects at the position to now having full cupboards at the junior and AHL level that fit a variety of roles. This is good and we still have the 2024 draft to add further.

If he can parlay Hanifin and Markstrom into bettering the forward depth in a similar fashion, this will be a very good outcome. Not every move is going to be sexy, but I'd rather amass some picks along with players like Sharangovich, Hunter and Grushnikov that are ready to start moving along, versus draft our own prospects with late firsts or worse picks that may be 3-4 years away, if at all.

[Canada 02]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Not much here but Scott Bakula (sp?) was just on the FAN talking about the trade and he said he slots Grushnikov ahead of the Kuznetsov/Solovyov duo of Russian Dmen that the Flames currently have.
He also mentioned that he thinks of him as a potential 4-5 at the NHL level.

Scott Bakula thinks he is a 4-5? That's a Quantum Leap!

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I think when you have a vision for what your team is going to be in 2-3 years, you look at roles players need to be in to succeed.

You need scorers who can excel both on the rush but also on the cycle after a dump and chase.

You need defenders who can move the puck, but also willing to throw their body around against a hard forecheck or on the PK.

Every prospect can't just be a guy who produved a signifiance amount of points in Junior/Lower levels. those guys don't PK. They don't throw their bodies around (typically).

If you dont have defined roles and character players on your team, you end up like teams who seem to get very high grades at the draft and in various prospect ranking, and yet never go anywhere in the playoffs or set themselves apart in the regular season.

Tampa, Vegas, St Louis all had role player D and forwards who did the things the high skilled, PP/5v5 players won't or couldn't do.

Is Grushnikov one of these? Who knows. But he's another lottery ticket for that type of player and that is exactly what this franchise needs. Picks and options at every role.

I disagree with that approach. Just take the best players and work it out down the road. I'd rather draft 15 Johnny Gaudreau's than one (insert grinder here). You can trade one Gaudreau and get 5 grinders down the road. I think its a mistake to try to fill the lesser roles on team.

Identify the roles that you can rarely get in a trade or free agency (i.e. 1st line centre) and draft/trade for prospects who have a chance to fill that role whenever you can get it.

[smithtofuhr86]

Originally Posted by RyZ

Not much here but Scott Bakula (sp?) was just on the FAN talking about the trade and he said he slots Grushnikov ahead of the Kuznetsov/Solovyov duo of Russian Dmen that the Flames currently have.
He also mentioned that he thinks of him as a potential 4-5 at the NHL level.

Yes. That would be Jason Bakula who works as a Sportsnet Scout he's also worked in the OHL and he mentioned for the Nashville Predators as well he was saying, anyway yes it was encouraging to hear what he said but as always there is two sides to the story because in the next segment Greg Wyshynski thought the return was a bit underwhelming and thought Conroy whiffed a bit on this one but he said it's better than nothing. It wasn't the prospect in his opinion he had an issue with it was the Draft picks which will be late 2nd round so in a 60 ish area.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by devo22

Scott Wheeler mentioned it in his assessment.

Thanks. Not sure this sets that out as his ceiling though.

[IamNotKenKing]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Right now the Dallas 2nd round pick is slotted at #60 closer to a 3rd round pick. Grushnikov was drafted #48 OA in 2021.

why were the flames not interested in retaining cap space and getting the 4th round pick for the 2023-24 cap space? They are looking at 7M deadline cap space or more. Cap friendly shows them retaining tanev's 2.25. There is only 212K potential in bonuses

Are the Flames looking to take on cap space at the deadline? Maybe part of the Petterson trade? Or will they eat the space to make Hanifin/Markstrom more doable? taking back a bad contract as well a retain cap?

This has been beaten to death. Calgary max retained at 50%. The other 25% was for NJ, and that is why they received the 4th.

[Atodaso]

Originally Posted by RedHot25

Yes. But that doesn't change anything I said - the flames, themselves, retained as much as they could.

What are you saying?

Flames retain 50%
New Jersey retain 50% of 50% equalling 25%
Dallas gets him for 25% of the contract.

Hypothetically if 7 or 8 teams daisychained 50% retention, the acquiring team would get them for about 97% retained.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by smithtofuhr86

Yes. That would be Jason Bakula who works as a Sportsnet Scout he's also worked in the OHL and he mentioned for the Nashville Predators as well he was saying, anyway yes it was encouraging to hear what he said but as always there is two sides to the story because in the next segment Greg Wyshynski thought the return was a bit underwhelming and thought Conroy whiffed a bit on this one but he said it's better than nothing. It wasn't the prospect in his opinion he had an issue with it was the Draft picks which will be late 2nd round so in a 60 ish area.

I found Wyshynski's interview really wacky, on and on about how Conroy whiffed on tanev but then turned around and said how great the Lindholm trade was and how he (Wyshynski) was one of the only ones that thought that.

Sounded like he was fishing to generate web traffic, essentially to me.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Atodaso

What are you saying?

Flames retain 50%
New Jersey retain 50% of 50% equalling 25%
Dallas gets him for 25% of the contract.

Hypothetically if 7 or 8 teams daisychained 50% retention, the acquiring team would get them for about 97% retained.

Think the maximum amount of times a single player contract can have salary retention applied is twice (so max 75%).

NHL makes all these rules because they don't like fun.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Atodaso

What are you saying?

Flames retain 50%
New Jersey retain 50% of 50% equalling 25%
Dallas gets him for 25% of the contract.

Hypothetically if 7 or 8 teams daisychained 50% retention, the acquiring team would get them for about 97% retained.

Last one isn’t allowed. A contract can only be retained on twice.

[RedHot25]

Originally Posted by Atodaso

What are you saying?

Flames retain 50%
New Jersey retain 50% of 50% equalling 25%
Dallas gets him for 25% of the contract.

Hypothetically if 7 or 8 teams daisychained 50% retention, the acquiring team would get them for about 97% retained.

I'm saying, according to google, the flames, as an organization, retained 50% which is the max according to the rules they could do as an organization on tanev. Nothing else.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by Atodaso

What are you saying?

Flames retain 50%
New Jersey retain 50% of 50% equalling 25%
Dallas gets him for 25% of the contract.

Hypothetically if 7 or 8 teams daisychained 50% retention, the acquiring team would get them for about 97% retained.

Don't give Treliving ideas.