[News Roundup] CSEC/City arena deal UPDATED: Third Party Facilitator

[The Fisher Account]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

Another factor here is with a new Arena we have to be on a short list for an NBA team, how is that not garnering more discussion.

This may be the most ridiculous thing said in this entire thread. LMAO

[Northendzone]

By NBA do you mean national bowling association or perhaps national billiards association

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

What's boggling my mind is the city and ownership living in a fairytale thinking this Arena gets built for less then a billion dollars.

No chance the doors open for less then that, everyone knows it.

Another factor here is with a new Arena we have to be on a short list for an NBA team, how is that not garnering more discussion.

There isn't text green enough for this post

[Sylvanfan]

On one hand the process dragging out this long is a big reason why costs are going up huge. 5 years ago it would have been far less expensive to build than right now. The Flames are using the same playbook that the Oilers did for their arena deal save the hollow threat trip to Seattle. Difference is that Edmonton pandered there way such that it got built during a recession when costs came down a skilled labour was long on supply. Mostly due to dumb luck as opposed to shrewd planning. Calgary is the opposite....their delays and tactics are going to result in spending a lot more to get the same thing.

[Flame On]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

On one hand the process dragging out this long is a big reason why costs are going up huge. 5 years ago it would have been far less expensive to build than right now. The Flames are using the same playbook that the Oilers did for their arena deal save the hollow threat trip to Seattle. Difference is that Edmonton pandered there way such that it got built during a recession when costs came down a skilled labour was long on supply. Mostly due to dumb luck as opposed to shrewd planning. Calgary is the opposite....their delays and tactics are going to result in spending a lot more to get the same thing.

Edmonton. Dumb luck over shrewd planning is kind of their thing.

[Major Major]

What's even more on brand: dumb luck, still sucks...

Gimme the dome any day over Rogers. That place sucks

[corporatejay]

One thing not being talked about is with a world class arena Calgary could add a team in the premiership.

[Fuzz]

I think we'd be a shoe in for a Quidditch team.

[OldDutch]

Originally Posted by Major Major

What's even more on brand: dumb luck, still sucks...

Gimme the dome any day over Rogers. That place sucks

I have been to Rogers for a game and a concert. I didn’t find anything an upgrade in a practical non aesthetic sense. Washrooms had a line, albiet a shorter one. However the one think I really disliked was a move from concession to bar for drinks.

Those little islands where everyone is pushing each other out of the way to get the bartender attention. It took forever, and its the only time someone has got verbal with me at a hockey game. Like a serious threat uttered over a drink.

Yes Edmonton is like that, due to the length of service and crab bucket mentality it makes a bad situation worse.

I am sure in the VIP section its not an issue, but in the $200 seats it is. It was an awful experience compared to the soviet style but clear line at the dome.

Good for Edmonton, but I don’t want to spend $100 more on a ticket for that. Its an experience that is better for one group. The wealthy and corporate crowd.

I hope we are a bigger city than Edmonton and don’t call our arena a key landmark of pride. We have more than that going on here.

[GioforPM]

I’ve not been impressed by Rogers. In fact, concessions are just as good, if not better, at the Dome IMO. But T-Mobil is great so improvements in a new building are possible.

All that said, the Dome has more fundamental underlying issues - the roof, seating, etc.

[browna]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’ve not been impressed by Rogers. In fact, concessions are just as good, if not better, at the Dome IMO. But T-Mobil is great so improvements in a new building are possible.

All that said, the Dome has more fundamental underlying issues - the roof, seating, etc.

And more fundamental than that for hockey, the ice plant which has been replaced multiple times pre-flood and KK (RIP) said there was nothing more could be done to improve that aspect.

Katz basically made it a condition of buying the team that he gets cooperation in a new rink. It was said multiple times by him at the first presser. Everyone forgot about that until years later he brings that up and calls that in. That certainly played into Edmonton City Council's call. The Oilers had 29 owners for a while before that, they were toast up there without Katz and the City knew it.

The Flames ownership's original error in all this was not going ahead with fully ready to dig plans in 2006ish. The team would've been a in a new building for a decade now. The political and (now-intertwined) social media climate was vastly different and more favorable than it turned to even 6 years later, let alone now 15 years later which has made it hard for the Flames to navigate, nevermind costs going up over that time too.

[Cecil Terwilliger]

I’d love to know more about how Katz “calls that in”.

Hit squads? Bribes? Blackmail photos?

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

By NBA do you mean national bowling association or perhaps national billiards association

Bocce

[browna]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I’d love to know more about how Katz “calls that in”.

Hit squads? Bribes? Blackmail photos?

He bought the team under certain financial conditions, even though he was a fan. He said day 1 for it to make financial sense for him long term, the team needed a new building. If those conditions weren't met/was being ignored, he'd then have to explore all options at his disposal.

That day, every fan and probably Edmonton city councilor had delusions of mutiple Cup parties on Whyte, now being a cap team (forgetting Lowe was still in charge and driving the club into the toilet) and dimissed or at least kicked the arena issue can down the road for another day... assuming Katz wouldn't really dispose of a team he liked so much in a few years.

However when he started actually following through on his promise to get cooperation for building for it to make the finaical sense that he personally needed and stated from the start, and got nowhere with the powers that be in the City of Edmonton, he made the Seattle trip, annoying/shocking all those that didn't listen to him that first day.

[Gemnoble]

Originally Posted by The Fisher Account

This may be the most ridiculous thing said in this entire thread. LMAO

I said shortlist, Calgary is routinely ranked only under Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver for Canadian cities in best places to live lists. It's far cheaper then those other cities with less taxes, it's very close to Banff and Lake Louise, has world class Golf Courses nearby, the Stampede and a sports hungry population. Would be a good middle point between a new Vancouver team and Toronto AND Edmonton up the road to come fill out the Arena for games.

Why Calgary over Edmonton? Calgary has better weather and a better location and higher population and we all know Edmonton is a brick of a city. Other then West Ed or an Oilers game is there ANY reason to go there? Anything we don't already have and better?

Yeah, Calgary isn't on the top of the list, but it's the third Canadian city on the list, possibly second depending on how interested ownership groups are in Quebec and Calgary.

Have some civic pride. This is an incredible city and has the population and interest to handle an NBA team, outdoor CFL games sell out in winter weather, why wouldn't an NBA team sell out?

I hope everyone finds a way to channel their negativity, this is a terribly toxic server so far.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

I said shortlist, Calgary is routinely ranked only under Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver for Canadian cities in best places to live lists. It's far cheaper then those other cities with less taxes, it's very close to Banff and Lake Louise, has world class Golf Courses nearby, the Stampede and a sports hungry population. Would be a good middle point between a new Vancouver team and Toronto AND Edmonton up the road to come fill out the Arena for games.

Why Calgary over Edmonton? Calgary has better weather and a better location and higher population and we all know Edmonton is a brick of a city. Other then West Ed or an Oilers game is there ANY reason to go there? Anything we don't already have and better?

Yeah, Calgary isn't on the top of the list, but it's the third Canadian city on the list, possibly second depending on how interested ownership groups are in Quebec and Calgary.

Have some civic pride. This is an incredible city and has the population and interest to handle an NBA team, outdoor CFL games sell out in winter weather, why wouldn't an NBA team sell out?

I hope everyone finds a way to channel their negativity, this is a terribly toxic server so far.

Calgary is an amazing city with many, many great things going for it.

It's not an NBA city though, that's just a different thing entirely.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Calgary is an amazing city with many, many great things going for it.

It's not an NBA city though, that's just a different thing entirely.

Yeah, it isn't an indictment to say we aren't getting an NBA team, its just math. There is a list of NBA metro areas here: https://hoop-social.com/nba-team-market-size-rankings/

There are 30 teams - if we got an expansion team we'd be the 28th team by size of metro area. Without US cable bundle economics, selling tickets in Canadian dollars. There are US metro areas twice as big that would get teams way before we did.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Gemnoble

I said shortlist, Calgary is routinely ranked only under Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver for Canadian cities in best places to live lists. It's far cheaper then those other cities with less taxes, it's very close to Banff and Lake Louise, has world class Golf Courses nearby, the Stampede and a sports hungry population. Would be a good middle point between a new Vancouver team and Toronto AND Edmonton up the road to come fill out the Arena for games.

Why Calgary over Edmonton? Calgary has better weather and a better location and higher population and we all know Edmonton is a brick of a city. Other then West Ed or an Oilers game is there ANY reason to go there? Anything we don't already have and better?

Yeah, Calgary isn't on the top of the list, but it's the third Canadian city on the list, possibly second depending on how interested ownership groups are in Quebec and Calgary.

Have some civic pride. This is an incredible city and has the population and interest to handle an NBA team, outdoor CFL games sell out in winter weather, why wouldn't an NBA team sell out?

I hope everyone finds a way to channel their negativity, this is a terribly toxic server so far.

If those were the metrics, Atlanta would also be a suitable NHL city.

There is a lot more to demographics than just population. Even then, Calgary would be one of the smallest, if not the smallest, market in the NBA (especially when you consider the television market which is big driver).

Calgary would probably do better with an MLB team, but even that would be a huge long shot.

[taffeyb]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Edwards personal worth has just exploded, go look at CNRL stock over the last couple years. Ownership can take the extra $9-10MM the city wants and then still pocket the franchise valuation increase of $400-500MM. After paying 50% for the arena they still net a cool $100MM in increased valuation.

.

If you look at a longer time frame, exploded is not the correct adjective. He’s better off, but he’s certainly rode the wave down as well

[Number 39]

Having done business in the past w both parties the current situation is hardly surprising.