The Energy Transition and technologies

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by #-3

So are we expecting 1GW/hour by 2029?

Who knows? Capital investment is still moving in the direction of solar

https://twitter.com/user/status/1661598278318710785

[Street Pharmacist]

Greek company Mytilineos to launch Canada's largest solar farm in Alberta. The additional 1400MW will more than double the current capacity (1100MW). That's insane. Investment still pouring into solar.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/busi...rm-mytilineos/

I wonder what transmission upgrades are planned? Must be something or it'll all be curtailed

[Fuzz]

That chart shows oil production has gotten 1/3rd more efficient at using capital to produce more oil than ever.

[socktape]

I had heard from a friend in the industry that the fear is the UCP government will not be nearly as friendly to new solar investment in the province as it or the NDP were in the past. Their land policy is shrinking the available types of land that can be used for solar farms due to fears of losing arable land for food and grazing. Something to watch for in the future to see if it is true.

[Fuzz]

Alberta's premier assured a ballroom of rural leaders Wednesday that she does not want to see the province move away from electricity generated from fossil fuels, while complaining about solar panels covering farm land.

"This is a natural gas basin. We are a natural gas province and we will continue to build natural gas power plants because that is what makes sense in Alberta," Danielle Smith said.

"I'm supportive of solar and wind projects where they make sense. But I can tell you from conversations with people in my own community that putting solar panels on prime agricultural land does not make sense," Smith responded.


"Especially like the one I drive past in Brooks every day I go down there. It's covered in ice and snow and not generating any power at all."

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/we-are-a...olar-1.6324424


Yup, this will appeal to rural residents. I wouldn't expect much support for the industry, and she'll probably declare war on them soon enough. Electing morons has consequences.

[Ozy_Flame]

Still trying to figure out where her community is - High River or Brooks-Medicine Hat. It's so confusing.

[TheIronMaiden]

It isn't viable for everyone, but it's going to come down to individual action for solar to grow. Not ideal, but no reason to stop fighting the good fight.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/we-are-a...olar-1.6324424


Yup, this will appeal to rural residents. I wouldn't expect much support for the industry, and she'll probably declare war on them soon enough. Electing morons has consequences.

Has someone ever looked at the effect of solar land use? I’m not saying the UCP is right but someone should have a study done somewhere discussing criteria to apply.

I think in cities when not on building like around the dump in the SE it looks to be poor use of land that decreases density which in turn increases environmental impact of cities.

Wind mills seem to work well with grazing given their small foot print.

[calgarygeologist]

I wonder if it would be a feasible business opportunity for a solar company to sign agreements with home owners and building owners to utilize their roofs for installations. Something along the lines of access to the roof in exchange for free energy during producing periods (any consumption outside of producing periods is still paid for by the owners) and the company gets to sell whatever excess production exists.

I can understand the worries and concerns about solar on otherwise valuable farmland so maybe we need to explore new opportunities for tapping into wasted footage in urban areas.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by GGG

Has someone ever looked at the effect of solar land use? I’m not saying the UCP is right but someone should have a study done somewhere discussing criteria to apply.

I think in cities when not on building like around the dump in the SE it looks to be poor use of land that decreases density which in turn increases environmental impact of cities.

Wind mills seem to work well with grazing given their small foot print.

Sure, then do the study before taking a position. Writing it off with no facts is not a sound position.



Personally, I'm not huge on using land like that when we have vast seas of warehouses in the cities where demand is, that are being newly built with no solar. They should be forced to have it once it is over a certain sq ft. I know greenfield is cheaper, and that's why they do it, but lets weigh all the costs, not just price.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

I wonder if it would be a feasible business opportunity for a solar company to sign agreements with home owners and building owners to utilize their roofs for installations. Something along the lines of access to the roof in exchange for free energy during producing periods (any consumption outside of producing periods is still paid for by the owners) and the company gets to sell whatever excess production exists.

I can understand the worries and concerns about solar on otherwise valuable farmland so maybe we need to explore new opportunities for tapping into wasted footage in urban areas.

The thing I hate about the valuable farm land rhetoric, is that you don't see the same complaints when people take up good land to build acreages or sprawl out suburbs.

[Torture]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The thing I hate about the valuable farm land rhetoric, is that you don't see the same complaints when people take up good land to build acreages or sprawl out suburbs.

Not to mention the fact that farm land is also covered in ice for half the year.

Anyways, just because there's solar panels on the land doesn't mean that it's useless. Doesn't seem like we're doing much or any of this in Alberta yet, but there's been success mixing grazing and solar farms because you need to keep the weeds down for solar panels to have a clear view of the sun anyways.

What makes a good spot for livestock and a good spot for solar farms often overlaps. They’re both large, quite flat, and get a good amount of sun, being free from tall vegetation. As such, solar producers are increasingly leasing farm land for their operations.

The increase in solar production has environmental benefits, but it can come at the price of diminished agriculture production. That’s why there’s a growing interest in finding ways of combining ag and solar production in one place. For Todd Schmit, an associate professor of agribusiness at Cornell University, this means bringing out the sheep.

The sheep get fed, the farmers get paid, and the solar producers have their vegetation managed without using mowers and weed whackers—which can sometimes struggle to reach beneath the panels and use fossil fuels—or herbicides. This industry has been expanding in New York state since 2017, according to a report by the American Solar Grazing Association (ASGA). The report notes that the Empire State currently has 900 acres of solar energy-producing land being grazed. But there’s still plenty of room to grow.

https://arstechnica.com/science/2021...-solar-panels/


Actually, turns out they're starting to do this in Alberta already

University of Arizona bio-geographer Greg Barron-Gafford has been studying agri-voltaics, the integration of agricultural and solar farming, for years. He found that the shade provided by the solar panels prevents the crops or grassland below from becoming hot and dry during summer months, while also providing extensive shade for livestock.


At a solar farm east of Calgary, Capital Power Corp. is planning to pay a local ranch to provide sheep grazing on its solar farm for grass control. Barron-Gafford has also demonstrated effective livestock grazing on solar farms in addition to successfully growing crops like tomatoes under the shade of solar panels.

One of the important concepts of regenerative farming is to improve soil health by using cover crops and not disturbing the soil. The payoff is richer biodiversity in the soil and a deeper soil sponge that retains more water. By growing native grasses underneath solar panels, a large area of soil can be regenerated and this will provide benefits to surrounding land.

As Alberta’s Takota Coen discovered, improving the hydrological properties of his land resulted in benefits to neighbouring properties. In his case, by restoring natural water features and native plants the surrounding farms benefited from a greater resilience to drought and flooding.

https://www.producer.com/opinion/sol...work-together/

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by Torture

Not to mention the fact that farm land is also covered in ice for half the year.

or that pipelines, and gas pressure stations, pump jacks, tailing ponds, coal mines, disrupt farm land as well.

It's just a made up argument because you fear change.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Sure, then do the study before taking a position. Writing it off with no facts is not a sound position.



Personally, I'm not huge on using land like that when we have vast seas of warehouses in the cities where demand is, that are being newly built with no solar. They should be forced to have it once it is over a certain sq ft. I know greenfield is cheaper, and that's why they do it, but lets weigh all the costs, not just price.

I was more asking out interest if there were good studies available on land use and solar that people are aware of so I could read them. But agree the UCP process of doing studies to justify stances as opposed to reviewing studies to create stances is certainly a problem.

[Ozy_Flame]

Silly Danielle. You can have both with agrivoltaic farming.

Western University: Shading crops with solar panels can improve farming, lower food costs and reduce emissions

Our recently published paper found that Canada has an enormous agrivoltaic potential as it is a global agricultural powerhouse — with Canadian-produced food export goals set at $75 billion by 2025.

Many crops grown here, including corn, lettuce, potatoes, tomatoes, wheat and pasture grass have already been proven to increase with agrivoltaics.

Studies from all over the world have shown crop yields increase when the crops are partially shaded with solar panels. These yield increases are possible because of the microclimate created underneath the solar panels that conserves water and protects plants from excess sun, wind, hail and soil erosion. This makes more food per acre, and could help bring down food prices.

And as the costs of solar energy plummet, nations across the world are installing agrivoltaic systems and offsetting the burning of fossil fuels by profitably producing more renewable energy.

And while we're at it, an entire research paper on the viability of agrivolatics in Alberta specifically - the biggest factors holding it back in Alberta is GOVERNMENT legislation around land use:

Energies 2023, 16(1): Energy Policy for Agrivoltaics in Alberta Canada

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by GGG

I was more asking out interest if there were good studies available on land use and solar that people are aware of so I could read them. But agree the UCP process of doing studies to justify stances as opposed to reviewing studies to create stances is certainly a problem.

This report/study might be of interest:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-82042-5

I quickly tried to search and skim a bunch of reports and studies and my initial impression is that the overall future impact is generally unknown and not modelled very well or accurately.

[Bigtime]

Edit: I'm an idiot, didn't see there was another page covering this before posting...

Even more solar coming to AB:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1664268077851348996

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The thing I hate about the valuable farm land rhetoric, is that you don't see the same complaints when people take up good land to build acreages or sprawl out suburbs.

I mean, you definitely do. Both BC and Ontario have huge green zone/ALR areas to protect farmland from development. An absolute shortage of housing is a huge issue in this country, and we've had multiple threads where I make that point and the argument is always "won't someone think of the farmland". Which is ridiculous, because the % of farmland we'd use to double the housing supply in urban areas would be a minute fraction of the total. And we don't need to double the housing supply to make a huge difference to affordability for Canadians.

The same applies to solar panels, because they can generally be put on the lowest quality land in an area. Deserts make great solar farms, but aren't so good for regular farms.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by TheIronMaiden

The thing I hate about the valuable farm land rhetoric, is that you don't see the same complaints when people take up good land to build acreages or sprawl out suburbs.

I'd like to seem them go after the no-gmo project or whole-foods for their negative impact on land use. It would probably garner a lot more bang for their buck on the land use problem then going after solar farms or urban sprawl.

[Table 5]

Hmm, I wonder what's a reliable, 365-days-a-year, rain-or-shine, source of baseload energy generation that is also an efficient use of land...