Humboldt Broncos tragedy.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

If this was you or I and we got in an accident and killed 16 people and injured others. Then were sentenced like this you would hug your lawyer.
Guy had a really good lawyer.

This guy either had an awful lawyer (unlikely) or didn't listen to his lawyer. This sentence is as long as it is because he pleaded guilty and the amount of national attention that this case received.

A longer sentence does nothing other than allows people to feel retribution, it doesn't give drivers more alertness, they still drive distracted, with poor concentration, and making mistakes on the road. Taking the emotional aspect out of it and it doesn't do anyone any good - it isn't taking a dangerous man off the streets or making them any safer.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

This guy either had an awful lawyer (unlikely) or didn't listen to his lawyer. This sentence is as long as it is because he pleaded guilty and the amount of national attention that this case received.

A longer sentence does nothing other than allows people to feel retribution, it doesn't give drivers more alertness, they still drive distracted, with poor concentration, and making mistakes on the road. Taking the emotional aspect out of it and it doesn't do anyone any good - it isn't taking a dangerous man off the streets or making them any safer.

So you’re saying the criminal justice system isn’t useful as a deterrent? I could take everything you have said in your second paragraph and apply it to any crime where the perpetrator feels remorse and isn’t likely to commit the crime again.

Although impossible to measure I certainly hope this case leads to safer drivers. I don’t see why it can’t.

[Lubicon]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think this is the first case where the deportation provision seems very severe. I don’t see any likelihood of reoffense here. The 8 years doesn’t bother me too much as being on parole in 2-3 seems reasonable as their needs to be a consequence despite a lack of intent but then being deported from your life is too severe for this crime.

Does he have a family here or is he a single guy?

He’s married but other than that he has no family that I have heard. It also sounds like the deportation is all but certain, there is no legal ground for him to appeal that and the law seems clear.

[bettercallbettman]

Guys do less time for murdering in cold blood

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So you’re saying the criminal justice system isn’t useful as a deterrent? I could take everything you have said in your second paragraph and apply it to any crime where the perpetrator feels remorse and isn’t likely to commit the crime again.

Although impossible to measure I certainly hope this case leads to safer drivers. I don’t see why it can’t.

It won't lead to people not paying attention to the road. This isn't going to be the determining factor in deciding what people will do behind the wheel.

As for other criminal cases, it involves the removal of a dangerous offender (which he isn't) and the use of a deterrent for future criminal offences.

The use of prison in cases like this is a very strange one because it is more about vengeance than it is about safety. Making him sit in a box doesn't make sense, spend the money on making roads safer, on increased driver training and standards. Spending huge amounts of money isn't going to change life for the families and it isn't going to prevent future events like this. The only thing that it does is satisfy a lust for vengeance and it make someone pay.

[chubeyr1]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It won't lead to people not paying attention to the road. This isn't going to be the determining factor in deciding what people will do behind the wheel.

As for other criminal cases, it involves the removal of a dangerous offender (which he isn't) and the use of a deterrent for future criminal offences.

The use of prison in cases like this is a very strange one because it is more about vengeance than it is about safety. Making him sit in a box doesn't make sense, spend the money on making roads safer, on increased driver training and standards. Spending huge amounts of money isn't going to change life for the families and it isn't going to prevent future events like this. The only thing that it does is satisfy a lust for vengeance and it make someone pay.

I do not appreciate your view at all, Guy killed 16 people. Vengeance would be if we killed him. I am not asking for that, no one here is. Vengeance? Are you that obtuse in this thread? I dont think any person here had mentioned vengeance at all.

I just think if you kill sixteen people you should get more than two months per life taken.

Guy will be deported and driving again in 32 months. 16 people are dead, others injured for life.

I can not give you a sentence this guy should of got. Vengeance? No one here is talking about that.

If this was vengeance we would be asking for the death penalty or life 25.

Guy got charged with 2 months per death. Really lite sentence.

He should of been instructed better as a driver?

I can agree with this. Yet he made a choice. Many people died. He is liable for that choice.

This is an argument I can not win, nor can you.

This is all bad no matter your beliefs.

16 people are dead today. This driver is responsible for this.

I have been driving on the road in Canada for 35 years. No one has died because of my driving.

I dont take chances when I drive.

This guy took a chance. 16 people are dead.

He made a choice!

[lazypucker]

The driver did not make a choice to run over a bus full of people.

He didn't even know there was a stop sign!

I do not agree on your viewpoint of "he chose to be reckless"

He just made a really big mistake, and it got amplified because it involved a hockey team in Canada.

I know any length of sentence will not completely heal any wounds, but I do think this sentence is appropriate.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I dont take chances when I drive.

If we are being honest, we've all done dumb stuff on the road. To say you don't take chance when you drive is being naive.
I'm not letting him off the hook, because the mistake he made was catastrophic. And there should be consequences for that.
I suspect the biggest punishment is having to live with what you did for the rest of your life.

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I dont take chances when I drive.

This is an incorrect statement. You reduce the risk as much as you can, but simply driving itself is a risk, as we can't be 100% in control of the situation at all times.

And I'm also willing to wager that you do take chances, you just don't see them as chances, as your number hasn't come up yet.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by chubeyr1

I do not appreciate your view at all, Guy killed 16 people. Vengeance would be if we killed him. I am not asking for that, no one here is. Vengeance? Are you that obtuse in this thread? I dont think any person here had mentioned vengeance at all.

I just think if you kill sixteen people you should get more than two months per life taken.

Guy will be deported and driving again in 32 months. 16 people are dead, others injured for life.

I can not give you a sentence this guy should of got. Vengeance? No one here is talking about that.

If this was vengeance we would be asking for the death penalty or life 25.

Guy got charged with 2 months per death. Really lite sentence.

He should of been instructed better as a driver?

I can agree with this. Yet he made a choice. Many people died. He is liable for that choice.

This is an argument I can not win, nor can you.

This is all bad no matter your beliefs.

16 people are dead today. This driver is responsible for this.

I have been driving on the road in Canada for 35 years. No one has died because of my driving.

I dont take chances when I drive.

This guy took a chance. 16 people are dead.

He made a choice!

Please address my question or stop talking about 32 months as if it is fact. Why do you think it’ll be 32 months served to equate to your seemingly made up 2 months per life?

Is that a fact that it’ll be 2 months per life? Why do you keep acting as if that is a foregone conclusion? How do you know how his parole will work into the future?

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by lazypucker

The driver did not make a choice to run over a bus full of people.

He didn't even know there was a stop sign!

I do not agree on your viewpoint of "he chose to be reckless"

He just made a really big mistake, and it got amplified because it involved a hockey team in Canada.

I know any length of sentence will not completely heal any wounds, but I do think this sentence is appropriate.

How could he not know there was a stop sign? If you're awake and miss that type of stop sign you shouldn't have a drivers licence of any kind let alone a class 1. Nope, he was inexperienced at shifting a heavy truck, he looked and missed the bus through the trees, purposely rolled the dice an ran the stop sign.

While 8 years seems a little much if he had got 4 he would be out in 16 months and the public would have been outraged.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

How could he not know there was a stop sign? If you're awake and miss that type of stop sign you shouldn't have a drivers licence of any kind let alone a class 1. Nope, he was inexperienced at shifting a heavy truck, he looked and missed the bus through the trees, purposely rolled the dice an ran the stop sign.

While 8 years seems a little much if he had got 4 he would be out in 16 months and the public would have been outraged.

I guess we can just make up whatever narratives that we want now?

[Rollin22x]

I'm surprised he got any time really. My wife's father and mother and a friend of theirs was killed by a driver that crossed the centre line. He was given a fine of $186 and the judge recommended he stop driving but she could not take his license away. Without intent to injure, there was nothing more the court could do.
The drivers lawyer came up with some ridiculous scenarios to lay the blame on her parents during the meetings before trial but thankfully the evidence at the scene

[stang]

I see both sides of the argument.

Terrible all around.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Snuffleupagus

How could he not know there was a stop sign? If you're awake and miss that type of stop sign you shouldn't have a drivers licence of any kind let alone a class 1. Nope, he was inexperienced at shifting a heavy truck, he looked and missed the bus through the trees, purposely rolled the dice an ran the stop sign.

While 8 years seems a little much if he had got 4 he would be out in 16 months and the public would have been outraged.

You don’t know he “rolled the dice”. About 20 years ago I got distracted by a guy who cut me off and then turned down an alley. I was looking in my side mirror at where he went, missed a red light and nailed a car going properly through an intersection. Totally my fault and totally unintended. Both cars totalled and minor injuries.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Mean Mr. Mustard

It won't lead to people not paying attention to the road. This isn't going to be the determining factor in deciding what people will do behind the wheel.

As for other criminal cases, it involves the removal of a dangerous offender (which he isn't) and the use of a deterrent for future criminal offences.

The use of prison in cases like this is a very strange one because it is more about vengeance than it is about safety. Making him sit in a box doesn't make sense, spend the money on making roads safer, on increased driver training and standards. Spending huge amounts of money isn't going to change life for the families and it isn't going to prevent future events like this. The only thing that it does is satisfy a lust for vengeance and it make someone pay.

You’re not explaining why this is about vengeance and not deterrence. I fail to understand why a stiff sentence here isn’t as much of a deterrent as it is in many other criminal case.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

You’re not explaining why this is about vengeance and not deterrence. I fail to understand why a stiff sentence here isn’t as much of a deterrent as it is in many other criminal case.

Because no one decides to be inattentive or inexperienced..

If he was drunk or on a phone I could see a deterance aspect. But this guy was inexperienced looking at his mirror. He appears that he wasn’t experienced enough.

Punishing the company that sent him out there could be a deterrence.

[Mickey76]

I really am uncomfortable with the statement “he made a choice.” He was careless for sure but the idea he consciously thought, “ I am having a hard time with this tricky shifting I’m going to blow all the stop signs today” is ridiculous. I am willing to bet that everyone here has blown a stop sign one time in their life.

To me a parallel is the Walkerton water case with Stan Koebel, inadequate training, inadequate supervision etc. I think Stan was much worse though as he falsified documents over a long period of time and lied about what was happening. I assume he never meant for anyone to get sick or die though. He served just over 4 months in jail and 7 people died. It definitely seems the publicity in this tragedy played a roll in what seems like a harsh sentence.

Finally I really don’t agree with the deportation. He came to Canada, got a job,(even if it is in a profession that is not a lot of fun) to me that’s an immigrant I welcome, I’m glad he’s here.

Having said all these things I can’t imagine losing my child in an accident like this. I’d probably want 100 years plus eternity. At the least I hope the families feel as if some justice was done so they can continue moving on with their lives.

[Manhattanboy]

I hope this sentence gets appealed and overturned.

Just my opinion but I think this judge went too far.

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by Mickey76

I really am uncomfortable with the statement “he made a choice.” He was careless for sure but the idea he consciously thought, “ I am having a hard time with this tricky shifting I’m going to blow all the stop signs today” is ridiculous. I am willing to bet that everyone here has blown a stop sign one time in their life.

To me a parallel is the Walkerton water case with Stan Koebel, inadequate training, inadequate supervision etc. I think Stan was much worse though as he falsified documents over a long period of time and lied about what was happening. I assume he never meant for anyone to get sick or die though. He served just over 4 months in jail and 7 people died. It definitely seems the publicity in this tragedy played a roll in what seems like a harsh sentence.

Finally I really don’t agree with the deportation. He came to Canada, got a job,(even if it is in a profession that is not a lot of fun) to me that’s an immigrant I welcome, I’m glad he’s here.

Having said all these things I can’t imagine losing my child in an accident like this. I’d probably want 100 years plus eternity. At the least I hope the families feel as if some justice was done so they can continue moving on with their lives.

I'm willing to bet no one here has blown a stop sign in an 60 tonne super bee doing 100 km/h