Toronto Blue Jays - Offseason Thread

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yeah, Morales has averaged 28 HR and 100 RBI his last two seasons, in a more pitcher friendly ball park for half his games. Not really too worried about DH, and with Pearce in the fold I'm not overly worried about 1B either.

As TAO says, the OF certainly looks like a hot mess right now, and it will be interesting to see how Shatkins go about improving it.

RF - Pompey
CF - Pillar
LF - Upton (vs LHP) / Carrera (vs. RHP)

Yikes.

Sure would be nice if either Ramirez or Alford had played (and excelled) in AAA last season, but neither played AAA at all. Ramirez is slotted for AAA next season, and maybe if he lights it up we see him later in the year, but even with that slim hope something needs to be done. The free agent market is pretty ugly now too, so it likely needs to be done via trade.

What about Lourdes Gurriel? Is he major league ready? I suspect he's probably in the Jays outfield plans. Whether it's this year or not remains to be seen.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

What about Lourdes Gurriel? Is he major league ready? I suspect he's probably in the Jays outfield plans. Whether it's this year or not remains to be seen.

Everything i've read on him is that the jays want him to play as an INF.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

What about Lourdes Gurriel? Is he major league ready? I suspect he's probably in the Jays outfield plans. Whether it's this year or not remains to be seen.

Forgot about him because it's hard to tell exactly where he'll end up playing, and also hard to predict what level he'll be at next season.

IMO he's a long shot to be a contributing MLB player next season, but that sure would be a bonus.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by cross16

Everything i've read on him is that the jays want him to play as an INF.

That would make sense. Moving Travis into the outfield frees up a second base spot for when he is ready to step up.

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

That would make sense. Moving Travis into the outfield frees up a second base spot for when he is ready to step up.

Travis was tried in the outfield by the Tigers and struggled, it was why they were willing to swap Travis for Gose

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Alberta_Beef

Travis was tried in the outfield by the Tigers and struggled, it was why they were willing to swap Travis for Gose

I thought they were just starting the outfield shift when the Jays acquired him because his D wasn't up to snuff in the infield? Jays promptly moved him back.

[cross16]

I don't see the Jays moving Travis to the outfield. I think he takes too much flak for his defence. Prior to the end of the injury, which came after his hand injury, his defence graded out just fine so I don't really agree he can't stay at 2nd due to his defence. With how much Atkins talks about complete players and defense I highly doubt he is willing to move Travis out there and live with what happens.

[JTech780]

According to thebaseballcube.com, Travis played 3 games at CF in 2014 at Class AA Erie, that is the extent of his OF experience.

http://thebaseballcube.com/players/p...P=devon-travis

[Hockey Fan #751]

Jon Morosi says Jays and Bautista are in active contract negotiations. I think he comes back.

https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/814571477848756224

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Hockey Fan #751

Jon Morosi says Jays and Bautista are in active contract negotiations. I think he comes back.

https://twitter.com/jonmorosi/status/814571477848756224

I'll gladly take him back at this point. No better options out there, and the Jays don't have the prospects to get anyone better through trades.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by cross16

I don't see the Jays moving Travis to the outfield. I think he takes too much flak for his defence. Prior to the end of the injury, which came after his hand injury, his defence graded out just fine so I don't really agree he can't stay at 2nd due to his defence. With how much Atkins talks about complete players and defense I highly doubt he is willing to move Travis out there and live with what happens.

His defence was horrendous. I honestly haven't seen that level of incompetence on defence as we seen this year from Travis. It wasn't a hand injury, but rather nervousness and mental mistakes. If he does what he did last year at 2nd, I'd fully advocate throwing him to RF where he can't f-up. Goins doesn't cut it on offence though, so I don't know if you'd be forced to use Barney at 2nd. I think I'd be fine with that though. Somewhat shores up our OF situation a little bit. Anyone know if Upton plays 2nd at all?

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by fleury

Anyone know if Upton plays 2nd at all?

I don't think so. Even if he had some experience, moving him out of the outfield would mean that we would be taking a substantial step back defensively (Upton plays really good outfield D) in the outfield without making any improvement elsewhere.

[cross16]

Originally Posted by fleury

His defence was horrendous. I honestly haven't seen that level of incompetence on defence as we seen this year from Travis. It wasn't a hand injury, but rather nervousness and mental mistakes. If he does what he did last year at 2nd, I'd fully advocate throwing him to RF where he can't f-up. Goins doesn't cut it on offence though, so I don't know if you'd be forced to use Barney at 2nd. I think I'd be fine with that though. Somewhat shores up our OF situation a little bit. Anyone know if Upton plays 2nd at all?

Was horrendous for less than 2 months. The rest of the season I didn't hear any complaints about his defence and the two months just happen to be after the injury. I get what you are saying it was not necessarily directly related to the injury from a physical standpoint, but coming back from an injury and playin hurt, which he did, can affect you mentally too.

For his first season and a half here's his defence has been above average and for 2 months it was horrendous. truth is probably in th middle which mean he is fine to stay at second. I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt given what we have seen previously.

[alan21]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

I don't think so. Even if he had some experience, moving him out of the outfield would mean that we would be taking a substantial step back defensively (Upton plays really good outfield D) in the outfield without making any improvement elsewhere.

He's played a total of 48 games at 2B in the majors and also of note 16 at SS and 13 at 3B. Which all happened between 2004-2007 before he was a fully established player in the majors.

So you are correct. Probably not is the answer.

[robbie111]

Wonder what it would take to get 2B Dozier from the Twins?

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by robbie111

Wonder what it would take to get 2B Dozier from the Twins?

Stroman to start.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

If the Jays wanted to move on from Edwin, I'm fine with that, but let's not pretend this wasn't a debacle. The Jays had Zero intention of resigning Edwin. They gave a veteran player who was loved by the City and wanted to be back a take it or leave it offer knowing full well he was at least going to see what was out there as he'd earned that right. When it became obvious that he may actually take the offer the Jays quickly Pulled it from the table. Meanwhile they sign Morales basically the minute free agency starts (can't remember the day, but It it was reported on day 1 he was signing in Toronto). The minute they signed Morales, there was zero chance EE was coming back. It's just not feasible with a 165M budget and so many other holes to fill, but the PR sideshow was kept alive for weeks.

If you want to move on from a player like Edwin in your organization, you just move on. You don't string your fan base along, you don't string the player along, and you don't use the media networks you own to try and make it look like you actually wanted to retain the player. You tell the player thank you for your serivice, tell the fans you are going in a new direction and you rip the bandaid off. What happened here was debacle and the type of the debacle that only seems to happen in Toronto in MLB.

From a baseball perspective, I think Morales will be a good replacement for Edwin (Smoak situation aside). Im betting Morales hits 30+ HR at Rogers Centre. I'm more concerned about the outfield than I am the DH situation.

I think making a 4/80 offer on a 33 year old righty power bar playing 1B / DH is a serious offer. Don't use your anti Rogers bias to tell you otherwise.

Also they hardly strung the fan base or EE along at all. They moved away from him pretty quickly after he rejected their final offer.

By all accounts they got morales said we can still fit you in and when that failed they got Pearce and closed the door.

If anyone was stringing this along it was the fanbase (me included) thinking Pearce could play LF full time when they Jays basically said no

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by Cappy

I think making a 4/80 offer on a 33 year old righty power bar playing 1B / DH is a serious offer. Don't use your anti Rogers bias to tell you otherwise.

Also they hardly strung the fan base or EE along at all. They moved away from him pretty quickly after he rejected their final offer.

By all accounts they got morales said we can still fit you in and when that failed they got Pearce and closed the door.

If anyone was stringing this along it was the fanbase (me included) thinking Pearce could play LF full time when they Jays basically said no

There was zero legitimacy to that offer. It was pulled the minute it became apparent he might sign it. The only media outlet routinely indicating the Jays were legitimately still in on Edwin was Sportsnet. Steve Phillips and the guys at TSN were saying he was gone for weeks.

The Jays have a 165M budget. There was zero chance they could have brought Edwin back with that number with Morales at DH. Way too many other roster spots to fill and guys likely headed to arbitration. Do the math. The Jays already have 130M committed and only 13 players on the roster excluding arbitration which will probably eat up another 10+. There's no ability for the Jays to go after Edwin once Morales and Pierce were there. They occupy the same positions.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by TheAlpineOracle

There was zero legitimacy to that offer. It was pulled the minute it became apparent he might sign it. The only media outlet routinely indicating the Jays were legitimately still in on Edwin was Sportsnet. Steve Phillips and the guys at TSN were saying he was gone for weeks.

The Jays have a 165M budget. There was zero chance they could have brought Edwin back with that number with Morales at DH. Way too many other roster spots to fill and guys likely headed to arbitration. Do the math. The Jays already have 130M committed and only 13 players on the roster excluding arbitration which will probably eat up another 10+. There's no ability for the Jays to go after Edwin once Morales and Pierce were there. They occupy the same positions.

You may be right, but I don't think so. There were rumors of guys like Pierce being moved should the Jays sign Edwin. One thing we all sometimes don't realize is that there are a 100 different scenarios up in the air. Most scenarios don't make sense, and a select few do. The Jays and other teams just don't go flying down one path and if it doesn't work, throw up their hands and say, "oh well, we tried". There's ongoing dialogue with a lot of scenarios potentially taking place. If the Jays signed Edwin, then Pierce moves to the outfield and Jays don't pursue signing Jose. Maybe a salary like Smoak gets moved. Who knows? I don't think the signing of Pierce eliminated the Edwin signing scenario though. I rarely apologize for the Jays, and the bad moves they've made at times, but I think they were fair with Edwin. Greed got the best of him and his group and they paid for taking that gamble.

[TheAlpineOracle]

Originally Posted by fleury

You may be right, but I don't think so. There were rumors of guys like Pierce being moved should the Jays sign Edwin. One thing we all sometimes don't realize is that there are a 100 different scenarios up in the air. Most scenarios don't make sense, and a select few do. The Jays and other teams just don't go flying down one path and if it doesn't work, throw up their hands and say, "oh well, we tried". There's ongoing dialogue with a lot of scenarios potentially taking place. If the Jays signed Edwin, then Pierce moves to the outfield and Jays don't pursue signing Jose. Maybe a salary like Smoak gets moved. Who knows? I don't think the signing of Pierce eliminated the Edwin signing scenario though. I rarely apologize for the Jays, and the bad moves they've made at times, but I think they were fair with Edwin. Greed got the best of him and his group and they paid for taking that gamble.

You don't actually believe the Jays would sign a guy to a two year contract than Turn around and trade him a few days later do you?

I'm actually fine with the Jays going with Pearce and Morales. I think it provides more flexibility. What I'm not fine with is how this went on forever as a complete charade as an attempt to win the impeding battle of public opinion. Actions like these are why the organization has little respect around the league. You celebrate a player like Edwin when his time his done, you don't go out of your way to make him look like the departure was on him.

...... and I now have to get a new Blue Jays jersey with Edwin gone so they'be cost me 300 bucks. Would go with Donaldson but not sure he'll be here much longer. May have to get a Sanchez jersey. Seems like the best bet for longterm use.