Xbox One - Where Microsoft actually listens to consumers

[chemgear]

Killer Instinct Glacius video:

http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/5...us-walkthrough

[chemgear]

Looks like the Xbone 180 (and the 360) will be there at Comic-Con! Not sure if they'll allow public hands-on like the PS4. I hope so!


http://majornelson.com/

[Mazrim]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Speaking of which today:

Microsoft: ‘Shame on Us’ for Xbox One Messaging

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/07/...-one-messaging

Wow, they didn't learn after the first time? Shocking.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

^ What does that have to do with the Xbox One?

Not sure why The Verge would put together an article about it and have it as their top/lead one on their website today either. But they try to address the concerns that some potential customers have apparently. Fair reasonable read - at least to me.

http://www.theverge.com/2013/7/16/45...on-your-family

You close a laptop when you're not using it. Your phone faces the inside of a pocket, a purse, or lies flat on a table. But the Microsoft Kinect, an always-on camera that will come with every new Xbox One game console, gets a perfect view of your living room. It's always listening for voice commands, even when you turn the Xbox off. It can even read your heartbeat with the right software.

"We aren't using Kinect to snoop on anybody at all," said Microsoft's Phil Harrison.

But would Microsoft be willing to help the government snoop? That's a good question. Last week, a report in The Guardian alleged that Microsoft gave government agencies access to private Skype video and audio calls, perhaps even going so far as to integrate Skype into the NSA's controversial PRISM surveillance system.

Not unlike Kinect, Skype had assured its users that wiretaps were technically impossible. "Because of Skype's peer-to-peer architecture and encryption techniques, Skype would not be able to comply with such a request,"Skype had assured its users that wiretaps were technically impossible the company told CNET in 2008. And four years later, when hackers accused Skype owner Microsoft of changing the service's backend to facilitate government eavesdropping, the company categorically denied the accusations. Now, it seems like the company could have been lying, or at least had quietly changed its mind.

Scott Greenwood, a civil rights lawyer, agrees. "It would be a flat violation of what little remains of the Fourth Amendment if the government had the ability to spy on you inside your house via a game system to which it had a backdoor," he told us.

But neither Greenwood nor Patel seemed to think the idea was completely far-fetched. "What we don’t know is whether there are either secret executive orders or regulations that would permit this to happen," said Greenwood, referring to PRISM and other forms of secret data collection greenlit by the FISA court system.

That’s the fear of Christopher Soghoian, a senior policy analyst with the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU). After tweeting about how untrustworthy Microsoft appears in light of the PRISM allegations, he spoke to us briefly about his concerns.

Soghoian pointed out that there is indeed something of a legal precedent for law enforcement to co-opt consumer technology for surveillance purposes. In 2002, a federal appeals court ruled against the FBI for tapping into a microphone that was part of the emergency call and navigation system (a la OnStar) inside a person’s car. The interesting part is that though two of three judges ruled against the government’s wiretap, their reasoning was simply that it kept emergency calls from functioning properly. You couldn’t dial 911 if the FBI was already on the line, they argued. The 9th Circuit reasoning there was delicate ... it's not clear that the Kinect camera serves as critical a function. Conceivably, the NSA could quietly record what's going in your living room without disrupting your ability to play video games," Soghoian told us.

All in all, it seems unlikely that the Microsoft Kinect would become a spying tool, especially given the backlash if anyone ever found out. It sounds like it would be particularly difficult to justify wide PRISM-style surveillance, given the Kinect’s role in the home. But as devices begin to learn more and more about us, and as intelligence agencies rely on secrecy to block lawsuits that might reveal just how far they’ve gone, we might want to consider which companies we trust to stand up to the government when we invite these incredibly convenient new tools into our lives, and our homes.

[Rathji]

The fact that MS data is being gathered by PRISM is about as relevant to this conversation as the fact that the crap I took this morning was a little bit off colour.

If you understand how PRISM almost certainly works, by upstreaming these major providers (MS, Google, etc) then you realize that these vague allegations are just stirring the pot for little or no reason, as the difference between MS granting someone access to this data and them having no idea this data access is happening results in the exact same thing: The NSA getting that data.

You want to bring up that fact that MS is scanning skype text messages for malicious links (or whatever reason), then that has relevance, but the PRISM connection is totally nonsensical fear mongering.

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by Rathji

as the fact that the crap I took this morning was a little bit off colour.

Beetroot will do that.

[chemgear]

Good, another (Xbox) 180 from Microsoft. How long before the Kinect requirement is also removed?


http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/455...elf-publishing


Following reports this afternoon, Microsoft has confirmed its plans to allow self-publishing on the Xbox One within the console's first year, adding that additional details would be coming at Gamescom in August.


Microsoft's earlier messaging on self-publishing and indie support — near-complete silence, really — was in stark contrast to Sony's very public embrace of indie developers.

[TorqueDog]

Not a 180 at all. Microsoft didn't originally say "We're not supporting indie development/self-publishing on Xbox One" and then later reversed it to "We are supporting indie development/self-publishing on Xbox One". The official roadmap on indie and self-publishing support had not yet been released.

[Mazrim]

Microsoft was slowly dropping support for indies on the 360 as time went on (XBLIG and the dev program support), and it's been well documented how they treated indie developers. The fact that they were giving no coverage to their support of indie gamers was just a confirmation of that.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

The official roadmap on indie and self-publishing support had not yet been released.

Well, maybe their unreleased roadmap outlined a multi-year master plan to publicly and purposely burn bridges with indie devs ahead of the Xbone release. Only to suddenly change course in late July of 2013 in order to look like a hero to potential new console purchasers.

Seriously though, glad they also finally removed their onerous Xbox 360 patch policies and costs to indie devs just last month.

Obviousness aside, this is a good change to see. More content and competition can only be good for the customer.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by TorqueDog

Not a 180 at all. Microsoft didn't originally say "We're not supporting indie development/self-publishing on Xbox One" and then later reversed it to "We are supporting indie development/self-publishing on Xbox One".

Had a quick look back, and that is explicitly incorrect - they clearly announced their stance on not allowing self publishing and it was widely reported (shacknews, joystiq, kotaku, theverge, etc.) Their reversal has also been widely reported as well by the same news outlets.

Again, the change/reversal/whatever you are willing to call it - is a good thing.

http://www.shacknews.com/article/793...-publish-games

Independent developers cannot self-publish their own games on Xbox Live Arcade. Instead, they must get a publishing deal--either with Microsoft Game Studios or with a third-party partner.

And apparently, Xbox One won't change how Microsoft approaches indie games. When asked if developers will still need a publisher to get content onto Xbox Live, Matt Booty, general manager of Redmond Game Studios and Platforms, told us that "as of right now, yes. We intend to continue to court developers in the ways that we have."

When it comes to self-publishing, Microsoft is the odd man out. Both Sony and Nintendo allow developers to publish their own games onto PlayStation Network and Nintendo Network, respectively. Microsoft's position stands in stark contrast to Sony, which has been aggressively pursuing indie content for PS4.

[cDnStealth]

The one thing I think is interesting when it comes to Indie games is that with Microsoft's recent reversal they're also claiming that a regular Xbox One will function as the dev kit. Contrast that with the PS4, where dev kits reportedly cost $2500. Now Sony's been loaning those kits to developers so it doesn't make a difference right now, but if the Xbox One also functions as a dev kit that could significantly lower the barrier of entry on game development.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by cDnStealth

The one thing I think is interesting when it comes to Indie games is that with Microsoft's recent reversal they're also claiming that a regular Xbox One will function as the dev kit. Contrast that with the PS4, where dev kits reportedly cost $2500. Now Sony's been loaning those kits to developers so it doesn't make a difference right now, but if the Xbox One also functions as a dev kit that could significantly lower the barrier of entry on game development.

Article from Polygon with an interviews from Indie devs on playstation dev support. Indie Pub Fund program includes a year free access to a dev kit. If you exceed a year the fees are backend payable on publishing of the game.

It's going to be a rental fee anyways since Sony's been focused on loaners rather than selling dev kits. Article doesn't say how much that is though.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/455...-playstation-4

How long does it usually take to build an Indie title?

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by FlameOn

Article from Polygon with an interviews from Indie devs on playstation dev support. Indie Pub Fund program includes a year free access to a dev kit. If you exceed a year the fees are backend payable on publishing of the game.

It's going to be a rental fee anyways since Sony's been focused on loaners rather than selling dev kits. Article doesn't say how much that is though.
http://www.polygon.com/2013/7/24/455...-playstation-4

How long does it usually take to build an Indie title?

That's kind of impossible to answer because it varries depending on the game and team. Dean Dodrill developed Dust by himself over a 3 year period. Super Meat Boy took 18 months with 2 people.

My point still stands though. If anyone who owns an Xbox can develop a game that is way more accessible than having to either buy a kit from Sony or convince them to lend you one.

From that same article

Polygon spoke to various development sources, who say that the PlayStation 4 dev kit costs about $2,500, which is $2,000 more than an Xbox One. Indie Xbox One developers will also pay a fee to Microsoft, which a source said is a few hundred dollars. Microsoft declined to talk publicly about the fee.

Although this $2,500 price is being cited in development circles, the game-makers we spoke to all said that Sony had lent them dev-kits for a limited period of one year, for free. As of right now, there are no dev-kits being sold. Sony is sending whatever it has available to favored developers. "All the indies I know got them for free," said one developer. "Sony has been amazing about kits and development thus far."

So how does one become a "favored" developer?

[chemgear]

Interesting points. I am also not sure what this potentially means - thoughts?

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/24/x...lf-publishing/

On PS4, for example, developers can tap right into the system; use every bit of RAM and all of its power. Indies have access to everything that the AAA studios do, from platform support to development and release. The indication on Xbox One is that it's essentially XBLIG 2.0. Instead of XNA, it's Windows 8. Windows 8, which is already struggling to gain developer interest, will gain a boost from developers wishing to target the console.

However, it won't be as full-fledged as published games on the system.
After my experience working with them to release on Xbox 360, I have no interest in even buying an Xbox One, let alone developing for it. The policy changes are great, but they don't undo the experience I had. I'm not ready to forget what I went through. Working with Microsoft was the unhappiest point of my career. Policies are one thing, but developer relations are another.

It's important to me that consumers don't see things as black and white. There are still strings attached to this policy change."

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Interesting points. I am also not sure what this potentially means - thoughts?

http://www.engadget.com/2013/07/24/x...lf-publishing/

On PS4, for example, developers can tap right into the system; use every bit of RAM and all of its power. Indies have access to everything that the AAA studios do, from platform support to development and release. The indication on Xbox One is that it's essentially XBLIG 2.0. Instead of XNA, it's Windows 8. Windows 8, which is already struggling to gain developer interest, will gain a boost from developers wishing to target the console.

However, it won't be as full-fledged as published games on the system.
After my experience working with them to release on Xbox 360, I have no interest in even buying an Xbox One, let alone developing for it. The policy changes are great, but they don't undo the experience I had. I'm not ready to forget what I went through. Working with Microsoft was the unhappiest point of my career. Policies are one thing, but developer relations are another.

It's important to me that consumers don't see things as black and white. There are still strings attached to this policy change."

As with anything, until these systems are physically on the market everything is subject to change. This was from an interview with Xbox Corporate VP Mark Witten:

GB: But this isn’t a situation where, if you just pick up an Xbox One at Target, you’re only going to be able to access certain parts of the memory, certain parts of the graphics processor? This is going to allow you, at least eventually, once it’s all put into place, to be able to do everything that someone like Respawn is doing?

Whitten: That’s right.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/mi...one/1100-4696/

[chemgear]

Hmmm, maybe more details at Gamescon as well?

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Hmmm, maybe more details at Gamescon as well?

Who the hell knows lol. As I've said before, I won't take anything from either Sony or Microsoft at face value until the systems are on store shelves.

[chemgear]

^ Heh, fair enough. At this stage, it seems like Sony has at least been relatively consistent so far. Microsoft seems all over the place with 180 backtracking and mixed messages.

Still so many months away!

[TorqueDog]

Heh, well if it results in a better product, I'm all for it.

I just think the Xbox '180' joke is really lame.