In an interview with DW, German government MP states that Russia is still pumping gas through the damaged Nord Stream pipelines preventing forensic analysis of the damage to the pipeline.
So their turbines magically fixed themselves for this. How can anyone still doubt it was Russia at this point? Russia's actions are following the same playbook to obfuscate the MH17 shootdown.
Last edited by FlameOn; 10-11-2022 at 09:20 AM.
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to FlameOn For This Useful Post:
Memo to Germany: Russia hates you. Always has. Stop trying to appease them so they sell you gas. Use your industrial might and rain some whoop-ass down on the invading forces and get them out of Ukraine.
Then we can talk about energy security.
The Following 8 Users Say Thank You to CroFlames For This Useful Post:
Memo to Germany: Russia hates you. Always has. Stop trying to appease them so they sell you gas. Use your industrial might and rain some whoop-ass down on the invading forces and get them out of Ukraine.
Then we can talk about energy security.
Them stalling delivery on IRIS SLM missile defense systems that were promised in June and blocking other countries from exporting their Leopard tanks to Ukraine is a slap in the face of Ukrainians fighting and directly contributed to the civilian deaths from Russian missile attacks on Ukrainian cities and the long delay of the Ukrainian counter-offensives.
Like I can kinda understand the whole "tie your economy to Russia" in the hopes of moderating Russia's aggressive tendencies as an economic mutually assured destruction thing w/ the pipelines and initial reluctance to deliver heavy weapons, but it well past that point where any reasonable person would have reversed course on this. Negotiations while Putin is in power is impossible.
Last edited by FlameOn; 10-11-2022 at 03:55 PM.
The Following User Says Thank You to FlameOn For This Useful Post:
In an interview with DW, German government MP states that Russia is still pumping gas through the damaged Nord Stream pipelines preventing forensic analysis of the damage to the pipeline.
So their turbines magically fixed themselves for this. How can anyone still doubt it was Russia at this point? Russia's actions are following the same playbook to obfuscate the MH17 shootdown.
From an integrity point of view if it wasn’t catastrophic damage you would want to keep feeding gas to keep the water out until you could repair. Haven’t watched the video so maybe they address this.
He's been saying similar things since the beginning. Obviously I don't know the inner workings - but at least publically the position from the US and NATO is that its up to Ukraine to negotiate the terms they want.
I guess you could say that they are influencing Ukraine's position by supply weapons.
The problem with any sort of negotiation or deal with Russia is that they will just go ahead and do it again, but worse, in 5 years. At seem point we either to just get it over with, and hand Putin whatever he wants, or stand up and fight(in whatever form we can do that doesn't involve nukes). Those are the choices. Anything else is fantasy.
Chomsky is a very smart guy, but I think he's out to lunch here. Where is Russia's responsibility here? Why should other countries capitulate to the invaders? This is up to Ukraine as to when the negotiations should take place. The United States is providing support, but so are other nations. Should all nations give up support and hope that something like a total trade embargo will bring Russia to the negotiation table? I don't think so. There is the diplomatic mission and there is the military mission. We are locked into the military mission at the moment and Russia needs to get be bled dry so they can't try these same tactics any time in the future.
One thing that Chomsky doesn't understand is that every single tank and armored vehicle that is destroyed on the battlefield in Ukraine is another asset that cannot be used elsewhere. Every asset loss continues to weaken Russia and that is an important consideration in preventing a broader conflict. The nuclear war sabre rattling is worrisome but it is unlikely Russia would do something that would assure their own destruction.
Yeah I think it all comes back to the same thing. Is it a certainty that if the west shifts to a push to negotiations with Russia to end this war, Russia will then repeat this with someone else later? Are they in any position to do this after this current war? Or, is it a better approach to continue with this fight until Russia clearly loses, backs out of Ukraine including the regions they did their own "vote" in and gamble that Russia doesn't decide to do something devastating as a last shot?
I'm kind of surprised Noam Chomsky is still alive.
"The official position that the war must go on to weaken Russia" is a maybe a bit of a stretch; rather, I think it's more accurate to say the US's position is that the war must be a painful as possible to deter Russia from doing the same thing in Kazakhstan, Georgia and other former Soviet republics. (Or, depending on how crazy Putin and his cronies become, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia... but I don't think they're ever going to pick a direct fight with NATO.)
As far as the US position "undermining" negotiations, or the potential for negotiations, goes I think that's also putting the onus on the NATO/Ukrainian side to be "open" to negotiations in the first place. You can't negotiate with the Russian regime; they are demonstrably untrustworthy. The fact that the war started in the first place is proof of this. Chomsky mentions that Macron was negotiating with Putin in the days before the invasion began and at that time Putin dismissed the possibility of a negotiated peace entirely. They had the Minsk Agreements on the status of Donetsk and Luhansk, and those were ignored. They had the Budapest Memo which said that Russia, the US and UK would "respect the independence and sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine"; that got broken in the first place in 2014. Why would the Ukrainians trust ANY negotiated peace settlement with the Russians? They demonstrably cannot.
And what do you begin the negotiations with anyway? You let Russia keep Crimea but they have to give up the Donetsk and Luhansk "People's Republics"? Ukrainian pre-2014 territorial integrity has to be absolutely non-negotiable, otherwise what's to stop Russia from similarly cleaving off territory from other neighbours in the name of "saving Russophone populations from 'neo-Nazis'/'Banderites'/etc."? This is what terrifies the Baltics, Finnish and Poles more than anyone: if you let them get away with using this propaganda as justification for annexing territory they'll just keep doing it!
I think whatever deal has to include Ukraine joining NATO. That will be the deterrent. NATO weapons have already proven to be superior that is not even including airplanes or ships.
I think whatever deal has to include Ukraine joining NATO. That will be the deterrent. NATO weapons & tactics have already proven to be superior that is not even including airplanes or ships.
fixed, make no mistake, much of the Ukrainian success is from "Western" training. They are fighting this war more like a NATO army than a former Eastern Block army.
__________________
Captain James P. DeCOSTE, CD, 18 Sep 1993
Yeah I think it all comes back to the same thing. Is it a certainty that if the west shifts to a push to negotiations with Russia to end this war, Russia will then repeat this with someone else later? Are they in any position to do this after this current war? Or, is it a better approach to continue with this fight until Russia clearly loses, backs out of Ukraine including the regions they did their own "vote" in and gamble that Russia doesn't decide to do something devastating as a last shot?
They've attacked Ukraine before in 2014 for Crimea and then shortly after at least supported an uprising for Donbas. They also attacked Georgia in 2008.
Its possible they don't do it again, but odds are they will regroup and then do it again somewhere else when they feel ready for it.
And its very likely that this ends with a negotiation and not Russia or Ukraine putting their tails between their legs and outright surrendering. But you can't force Russia to negotiate. They have to want to do it as well. Their position right now is they get everything they want and Ukraine gets nothing and they've said they aren't moving from that position.
