Matthew Tkachuk & Johnny Gaudreau Signing Watch Thread - Page 429 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Yoho · 07-12-2022, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by activeStick

So now we shift to Tkachuk. Does he ask to leave or does he want to prove that he's more than a player who needs Johnny to score?

Lol no he’s smarter than that. He better pray the Flames deal him before the season to a team the he wants to sign king term to.

Yoho · 07-12-2022, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Steinberg thinks the Flames will still try to compete, not rebuild.

Thankfully his opinion matters little.

Cleveland Steam Whistle · 07-12-2022, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

So in his presser did anyone ask BT if there was a formal proposal from the Gaudreau camp that the Flames simply wouldn’t meet?

Not really, and BT won't discuss numbers (nor should he) with the press. But we've seen the comments from Gross now saying the Flames did everything they could, this was a family decision.

What's Gross' and the Gaudreau's camps motivation to say that if it's not true? Even the Gaudreau team is essentially saying any reasonable offer was made, this wasn't about money, it was about location. Doesn't seem like the Flames left any rock un-turned on this one.

Strange Brew · 07-12-2022, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cleveland Steam Whistle

Not really, and BT won't discuss numbers (nor should he) with the press. But we've seen the comments from Gross now saying the Flames did everything they could, this was a family decision.

What's Gross' and the Gaudreau's camps motivation to say that if it's not true? Even the Gaudreau team is essentially saying any reasonable offer was made, this wasn't about money, it was about location. Doesn't seem like the Flames left any rock un-turned on this one.

It’s never about the money, said every UFA ever. And everyone always did everything they could when a player leaves.

But if it went this long and the Flames never received a firm counter proposal… well then only one party was interested in making a deal.

Jay Random · 07-12-2022, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, you 100% need luck. You also need to be very good to put yourself in a position to get lucky and get on one of those runs.

How are teams consistently good? By having a foundation built on high end picks.

But consistently bad teams also have a foundation built on high-end picks. Nine-tenths of the league has a foundation built on high-end picks. It is not enough, nor is the lack of it enough to make you fail.

Quote:

I'm showing you there is at least a foundation that the recipe is built on by showing similarities between Championship teams.

And I'm trying to show you that those similarities are also found among most teams that never win championships. If there is some particular thing that sets champions apart from other teams, you have not found it.

You might almost as well say that championship teams are built out of players with noses. Well, sure they are, but almost everyone has a nose.

You really don't seem to get the concept of correlation, do you?

Quote:

There is no guarantees in anything, but man...if you truly believe it's just luck? I don't know, I don't get the appeal of the sport at all then.

It's not just luck… but all the planning and drafting and developing and preparation in the world will not win you a championship without having luck too. And by focusing exclusively on championship teams, you are taking luck as a given. You are mistaking apophenia for causation.

2macinnis2 · 07-13-2022, 06:17 AM

The Sabres performed a TARGETED tank 8 years ago now, and look where they have been since.

And they knew that season they were going to get one of 2 superstar centers. That’s an uncommon draft, and due to lottery rules no longer a certainty.

Nelson · 07-13-2022, 07:40 AM

Offer Tkachuk 8 years at $9.5 M AAV. If Tkachuk won’t sign, trade him.

Roof-Daddy · 07-13-2022, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson

Offer Tkachuk 8 years at $9.5 M AAV. If Tkachuk won’t sign, trade him.

Yeah he won't sign that after 40 goals and 104 points, especially since he's yet another American star who's heart is probably elsewhere, like St Louis.

Trade him for sure

Moneyhands23 · 07-13-2022, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

The Sabres performed a TARGETED tank 8 years ago now, and look where they have been since.

And they knew that season they were going to get one of 2 superstar centers. That’s an uncommon draft, and due to lottery rules no longer a certainty.

Yes some times it doesn't work out. But also that team is run by crazy owners who meddle in the hockey operations.

Look at Detroit, they sold off 3 years ago and have been building through the draft. They are looking great.

2macinnis2 · 07-13-2022, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moneyhands23

Yes some times it doesn't work out. But also that team is run by crazy owners who meddle in the hockey operations.

Look at Detroit, they sold off 3 years ago and have been building through the draft. They are looking great.

Detroit had 74 points last year, and hasn’t been in the playoffs 6 years now. Their 2022-23 Cup odds are the same as Buffalo’s.

You think they finish this year ahead of Toronto, Tampa, or Florida?

I don’t want to be Detroit.

Moneyhands23 · 07-13-2022, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2macinnis2

Detroit had 74 points last year, and hasn’t been in the playoffs 6 years now. Their 2022-23 Cup odds are the same as Buffalo’s.

You think they finish this year ahead of Toronto, Tampa, or Florida?

I don’t want to be Detroit.

I think they started rebuilding 3 years ago after floundering with a meh roster. I think they are on track to be really good in a year or 2. It takes 3-4 years of good drafting and developing to get a build through the draft. That's just how it is.

And I think they will be able to compete with Toronto for sure in 2 years. That team has next year then they will be making some big changes. Tampa and Florida being good doesn't mean Detroit isn't on the right path.

Infinit47 · 07-13-2022, 10:02 AM

Here is a hot take. Tkachuk is more likely to sign long term now.

What are the chances he puts up over 100 points without Gaudreau? He's hot to think his value is highest right now.

Erick Estrada · 07-13-2022, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nelson

Offer Tkachuk 8 years at $9.5 M AAV. If Tkachuk won’t sign, trade him.

Going to have to be something in the range of 8 x $10 million for him to consider. He will get that on the market as I don't think enough Flames fans realize that a lot of teams covet him and would love to add him to their lineup.

Flamesfan05 · 07-13-2022, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infinit47

Here is a hot take. Tkachuk is more likely to sign long term now.

What are the chances he puts up over 100 points without Gaudreau? He's hot to think his value is highest right now.

Best for the Flames is to trade him

Ashasx · 07-13-2022, 10:17 AM

Pinder/Steinberg seem to think the Tkachuk would be more interested in signing a short-term deal and becoming a free agent at 28/29 and then signing an 8 year contract to maximize career earnings.

Tbull8 · 07-13-2022, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Pinder/Steinberg seem to think the Tkachuk would be more interested in signing a short-term deal and becoming a free agent at 28/29 and then signing an 8 year contract to maximize career earnings.

If tkachuk is willing to do a 4 or 5 year deal I could get on board with that. Gives the flames flexibility with moving him too

Ashasx · 07-13-2022, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tbull8

If tkachuk is willing to do a 4 or 5 year deal I could get on board with that. Gives the flames flexibility with moving him too

Sorry this was before the Gaudreau news, they think zero chance now.

Flamesfan05 · 07-13-2022, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Pinder/Steinberg seem to think the Tkachuk would be more interested in signing a short-term deal and becoming a free agent at 28/29 and then signing an 8 year contract to maximize career earnings.

Worst move in his life
He is lucky to get 80 pts moving forward

Ashasx · 07-13-2022, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Worst move in his life
He is lucky to get 80 pts moving forward

Maybe. If the cap goes up 10-15% by the time his contract is over, an 80 point player could be looking at $11 million in free agency.

littlereddevil · 07-13-2022, 10:31 AM

Detroit has also shown that you can build a strong cup contending team year in year out without having to be in the running for the draft lottery. Of course, the mindset of their ownership has changed since then, but there are still teams that have built themselves into contenders without having to be at the bottom of the league multiple years in a row to pick up strong prospects (St. Louis being the best example).

Also worth noting that when Detroit was most dominant in the 90s/00s, drafting/scouting wasn't as good as it is today, and it wasn't uncommon to see teams pick up hidden gems later in the draft instead of relying on high 1st round picks. But the fact remains that there isn't an exact formula to success. We've seen many teams suck for many years in this league and that hasn't translated into success or helped attract fans to the team. Look no further than the Coyotes as the best example.