American Politics Thread: Orange is the new POTUS

[MRCboicgy]

Originally Posted by Senator Clay Davis

I think he was so pissed last night because if the pictures on Twitter are accurate, the crowd size last night was pretty weak, and it's very possible more protesters were outside than Trump cultists inside. If he can't even get packed halls for his rallies, you know that is crushing to him deep down. Suffice to say that as the rally crowds thin out, he's likely to go further off the deep end. Probably looking for another Boy Scouts rally or Liberty University rally to co-opt since they're conscripted into going

This is probably a big part of it - last night, it was amazing how many pro-Trump Tweets (bots) were sharing a cropped image of the Cleveland Cavs' victory parade as evidence of all the people waiting to see him.

"Wait, the crowds are small, we need to counteract the fake news media's reporting of that with big crowds."

[DuffMan]

take away their what culture and history, the whole slaves scenario?

anyways, the dude behind him with the BlacksforTrump sign seems like a very bright and reasonable Trump supporter.

The radical fringe activist from Miami once belonged to a violent black supremacist religious cult, and he runs a handful of amateur, unintelligible conspiracy websites. He has called Barack Obama “The Beast” and Hillary Clinton a Ku Klux Klan member. Oprah Winfrey, he says, is the devil.

http://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politi...ofT?li=AAggNb9

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by wingmaker

Yeah, I guess my comment seems a bit strange in the midst of people reacting to a crazy Trump moment. I wasn't really talking about Trump at all. But I fully believe that Trump could only be elected in an environment where political discourse has broken down to the point where people draw a line in the sand. You could never have a Trump presidency if people in the United States were openly debating issues on their own merits and not just arguing along party lines.

It goes beyond politics. Democrats and Republicans are deeply divided by geography and education. A great many Democrats only know other Democrats. Their friends, neighbours, family, and co-workers are all Democrats. Same with Republicans. Now we have self-selecting social media, and people only getting news from ferociously partisan sources. You have two parallel societies that essentially live in different worlds. Increasing numbers of Americans don't want their children to marry a supporter of the other party.

How We Became Bitter Political Enemies

In 1960, just 5 percent of Republicans and 4 percent of Democrats said they would be unhappy if a son or daughter married someone from the other party. In a YouGov survey from 2008 that posed a similar question, 27 percent of Republicans and 20 percent of Democrats said they’d be “somewhat” or “very upset” by that prospect. By 2010, that share had jumped to half of Republicans and a third of Democrats

Even the TV shows they watch are completely different.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Even the TV shows they watch are completely different.

I thought this Facebook post by Rick Johnson (Aug 22) was an interesting take on the root of the problem:

America's culture war is fueled by syndicated AM radio that isn't accountable to anyone. In the 80s the FCC abolished the U.S. Fairness Doctrine, which required stations to give equal time whenever a questionable editorial was broadcast. The Communications Act of 1996 did away with the old concentration of ownership rules, allowing a handful of companies to buy stations across the United States and put the same narrow point of view on all of them. They especially concentrated on clear channel stations, which is why people in rural America almost blindly follow their agenda. Canada would do well to avoid making the same mistakes we witnessed south of the border.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

hmmm it is their culture and their history. There are a few small percentage of Americans who are neo-nazis or white supremacists. But there are a lot of Confederates. Now whether you think they are all one and the same is an issue up for debate.

The latest 538 podcast with Vincent Hutchings is a good discussion on this issue.

How Trump Talks About Race
https://fivethirtyeight.com/tag/five...ight-podcasts/

it's history, yes I will agree. but majority of people who want the confederate flags removed and statues of confederate leaders taken down are not trying to remove the culture of America or erase history.

a lot of it seems to be trying to remove blatant and hurtful reminders of past slavery and brutal racism. (racism which still exists and has gotten way more overt since trump took office)

I fully believe Trump is pandering to the segment of the population that either hates, or is uncomfortable with people of color. and his statement in the speech referencing their "culture" was part of that.

convince me otherwise. what culture are the protesters of confederate imagery trying to erase that shouldn't be.
explain to me the parts of confederate and southern culture that the statues and flags represent that the protesters shouldn't be attempting to "take away."

[ernie]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

beautiful coal.

also...

Trump administration halts research on mountaintop removal coal mining


As I heard one person put it, Trump loves Coal companies, but dgaf about coal people.

Meanwhile Southern Company has killed the clean coal plant they were building due to massive cost overuns. Essentially it was going to cost the same as the nuclear plants they are building in Georgia (also massive cost and time overuns). And once complete it never would have been able to run economically even using the cheapest coal you can find which happens to be right next door....

Coal is dead.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by troutman

I thought this Facebook post by Rick Johnson (Aug 22) was an interesting take on the root of the problem:

America's culture war is fueled by syndicated AM radio that isn't accountable to anyone. In the 80s the FCC abolished the U.S. Fairness Doctrine, which required stations to give equal time whenever a questionable editorial was broadcast. The Communications Act of 1996 did away with the old concentration of ownership rules, allowing a handful of companies to buy stations across the United States and put the same narrow point of view on all of them. They especially concentrated on clear channel stations, which is why people in rural America almost blindly follow their agenda. Canada would do well to avoid making the same mistakes we witnessed south of the border.

This is right on the money. If you are looking for a moment that started the shift, it was the loss of the Fairness Doctrine in 1987.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

it's history, yes I will agree. but majority of people who want the confederate flags removed and statues of confederate leaders taken down are not trying to remove the culture of America or erase history.

a lot of it seems to be trying to remove blatant and hurtful reminders of past slavery and brutal racism. (racism which still exists and has gotten way more overt since trump took office)

I fully believe Trump is pandering to the segment of the population that either hates, or is uncomfortable with people of color. and his statement in the speech referencing their "culture" was part of that.

convince me otherwise. what culture are the protesters of confederate imagery trying to erase that shouldn't be.
explain to me the parts of confederate and southern culture that the statues and flags represent that the protesters shouldn't be attempting to "take away."

I believe the argument would be that blatant and hurtful reminders of past slavery and brutal racism is part of culture and history. It could be a reminder to not repeat it.

I'm bring very simplistic here. This issue has been debated in detail in the Charlottesville thread.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I believe the argument would be that blatant and hurtful reminders of past slavery and brutal racism is part of culture and history. It could be a reminder to not repeat it.

I'm bring very simplistic here. This issue has been debated in detail in the Charlottesville thread.

Even if you wanted to take that tact, these statues are displaying these guys in rather flattering, heroic, proud-of-themselves poses, and I would argue that it was intentional to show them that way.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by troutman

They especially concentrated on clear channel stations, which is why people in rural America almost blindly follow their agenda. Canada would do well to avoid making the same mistakes we witnessed south of the border.
[/I]

I remember when the Rutherford show tried to go national. It lasted about a year. There just isn't much of a market in this country for conservative talk radio.

However, CBC radio has become increasingly ideological and homogeneous. The major programs have stopped even paying lip service to detached, broad-minded coverage of most hot-button issues. It seems even public broadcasters can't resist the media strategy of picking a tribe and becoming a champion of its interests and causes.

[DuffMan]

Trump making America great like Russia more each day

White House has paperwork ready for Joe Arpaio pardon

http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/23/politi...ork/index.html

What next, arresting Don Lemon, or poisoning Sen. McCain?

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

I believe the argument would be that blatant and hurtful reminders of past slavery and brutal racism is part of culture and history. It could be a reminder to not repeat it.

I'm bring very simplistic here. This issue has been debated in detail in the Charlottesville thread.

If the monuments were a testimony to the brutality of the period (eg Auschwitz) then that would make more sense. However, the monuments to the horror of slavery are few and the monuments to the glory/sacrifice of the Confederacy are plentiful.

The US has failed in a major way to address its history compared to other countries. This is a good book on the topic

[Lanny_McDonald]

Remember the argument about Trump not being racist, and there being no evidence of him being racist? PBS disagrees and has almost 100 instances to support their investigation.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...paign=newshour

[direwolf]

Trump now speaking to veterans in Reno. So far he's sticking to the teleprompter, so nothing crazy yet.

[DuffMan]

Teleprompter Trump is not the real Donald Trump.

He's proven that, repeatedly.

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

Teleprompter Trump is not the real Donald Trump.

He's proven that, repeatedly.

oh yeah.. during the campaign you could tell if he was saying Senator Clinton or Crooked Hillary.

[direwolf]

Trump's science envoy to the State Department has resigned.

http://www.salon.com/2017/08/23/dona...253d7eefa2109b

Daniel M. Kammen, who served as a science envoy for the State Department and focused on renewable energy development in the Middle East and Northern Africa, submitted a letter of resignation on Wednesday. Notably, he began the first letter of each paragraph with letters that spelled out I-M-P-E-A-C-H. That followed a letter earlier this month by writer Jhumpa Lahiri and actor Kal Penn to similarly spell R-E-S-I-S-T in their joint letter of resignation from the President’s Committee on Arts and Humanities.

Kammen’s hidden message wasn’t nearly as scathing as the direct one.

“My decision to resign is in response to your attacks on core values of the United States,” Kammen wrote. “Your failure to condemn white supremacists and neo-Nazis has domestic and international ramifications.”

Kammen added, “Particularly troubling to me is how your response to Charlottesville is consistent with a broader pattern of behavior that enables sexism and racism, and disregards the welfare of all Americans, the global community and the planet.”

Perhaps Kammen’s most eloquent moment, however, was one in which he quoted another Republican president, writing, “I find particularly wise the admonition of President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who cautioned that, ‘A people [or person] that values its privileges above principles soon loses both.'”

[Itse]

"Impeach."

[Sol]

I'd just like to add one point to the monument debate; How come I haven't forgotten about the American Civil war? I mean, I don't think I have ever walked by a statue of Robert E. Lee.

The argument that we will all, collectively, forget about one of the ugliest times in American history because these monuments of racist traitors get moved to a museum or confederate cemetery is ridiculous.

[photon]

Shouldn't there be a statue of bin Laden? Need to make sure people remember!