At the time Sam Bennett was the better prospect. Full stop. On more than one list he was the #1 ranked guy.
This isn't a case of getting caught up in the hype. He was the right choice at the time.
Yes and Puljujarvi at the time was the unanimous 3rd ranked player in 2016 when Jarmo said shocked the NHL world by saying no to him. This is why you pay for your own scouting staff, so they can make the decisions that go against the majority. Everyone saw the truculence and edge that Sam Bennett brought to the table along with his production. But his shot, his hands and his hockey iq should’ve sounded off red flags. I’m really not sure Sam Bennett ever had elite 1st line ability, he had a lot of 3rd line grinder attributes.
Not unlike the 2017 draft, Nolan Patrick was seen as a top 2 pick, but I was honestly more impressed with Robert Thomas and Kailer Yamamoto than Patrick in the prospects game. Sometimes you just gotta go with your gut even if you’re going against the grain.
Bennett had hands at the time of his draft though, and even did in his first year or two here. Puck skills were not the issue.
Hockey IQ could have probably been the red flag as that's what held him back at this level, but lots of guys don't have that skill set at 18 and it's up to the team to help develop that.
And that's where the Flames failed. They kind of rushed his development, didn't really put him in good positions to succeed as a young player outside of his rookie season on Backlunds wing. Plus I think Gulutzan really killed his confidence and tried to turn him into a grinder too but that's a different story.
You're entire argument is pure hindsight. At the time of the draft Bennett was seen as a highly skilled player that also had a physical edge. Not as some grinder that lacked skill and hockey sense.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 03-03-2021 at 04:00 PM.
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Yes and Puljujarvi at the time was the unanimous 3rd ranked player in 2016 when Jarmo said shocked the NHL world by saying no to him.
It is not like PLD was a big reach though. The draft is a crap shoot no matter what. I'll be more impressed if their most recent first round pick makes an impact. That was a real reach.
Screw Ehlers, why weren't they brave enough to pick Larkin in that draft. It is easy to look back and say what they should have done.
Sam Bennett was ranked #1 by central scouting and top four by everyone. It was the big 4, 29 teams would have taken Bennett there.
That’s an indictment on CSS. Heck, it probably speaks to how flawed most scouting services are when they have Dal Colle as the consensus 5th overall. I just think you have to pick the right team of amateur scouts and believe in their vision. Taking risks and going off the board sometimes is part and parcel. Heck if it was really up to Tod Button, the Flames might have Gaudreau feeding the puck to Kucherov all day right now.
It is not like PLD was a big reach though. The draft is a crap shoot no matter what. I'll be more impressed if their most recent first round pick makes an impact. That was a real reach.
Screw Ehlers, why weren't they brave enough to pick Larkin in that draft. It is easy to look back and say what they should have done.
Should have just taken Brayden Point 4th overall.
I'm a big fan of the NHL ES model that Byron Bader put together and based purely on production this is what his Star Probability and NHL probability was at the time of the draft.
Interestingly enough Nylander was actually the top player by this analysis and probably should have been ranked higher. And of course Point falling to the third is ridiculous and he should have never fell that far.
Last edited by SuperMatt18; 03-03-2021 at 04:10 PM.
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Yes and Puljujarvi at the time was the unanimous 3rd ranked player in 2016 when Jarmo said shocked the NHL world by saying no to him. This is why you pay for your own scouting staff, so they can make the decisions that go against the majority. Everyone saw the truculence and edge that Sam Bennett brought to the table along with his production. But his shot, his hands and his hockey iq should’ve sounded off red flags. I’m really not sure Sam Bennett ever had elite 1st line ability, he had a lot of 3rd line grinder attributes.
Not unlike the 2017 draft, Nolan Patrick was seen as a top 2 pick, but I was honestly more impressed with Robert Thomas and Kailer Yamamoto than Patrick in the prospects game. Sometimes you just gotta go with your gut even if you’re going against the grain.
You seem to think that the Flames took Sam Bennet because that's what they read in the Hockey News
They do have a scouting team
They picked the guy they thought was best. That most thought was best at that spot.
Bennett had hands at the time of his draft though, and even did in his first year or two here. Puck skills were not the issue.
Bennett just cannot seem to effectively use teammates and he is not good enough in the NHL to be a one-man wrecking crew. I can see the argument that he was mishandled but he was never good enough to really displace any centers above him. Bennett on paper was exactly what the team needed, a center with top line potential that played mean.
Bennett had hands at the time of his draft though, and even did in his first year or two here. Puck skills were not the issue.
Hockey IQ could have probably been the red flag as that's what held him back at this level, but lots of guys don't have that skill set at 18 and it's up to the team to help develop that.
And that's where the Flames failed. They kind of rushed his development, didn't really put him in good positions to succeed as a young player outside of his rookie season on Backlunds wing. Plus I think Gulutzan really killed his confidence and tried to turn him into a grinder too but that's a different story.
You're entire argument is pure hindsight. At the time of the draft Bennett was seen as a highly skilled player that also had a physical edge. Not as some grinder that lacked skill and hockey sense.
Yeah I don’t see it the same way so we’ll have to agree to disagree. I don’t think Sam Bennett ever had great hands. He has great moves from time to time, but his hands look like they’re made of stone most of the time. His shot was nothing special either which is likely why he’s never scored 20 goals. His first step is also pretty bad and hasn’t improved much since his rookie year. I actually saw more abilities out of Andrew Managiapane in the 2015 Penticton Tournament then Sam Bennett at the time. So when CP was shocked to see that Mangiapane had surpassed Bennett on the depth chart, it really was not a surprise to me.
I'm a big fan of the NHL ES model that Byron Bader put together and based purely on production this is what his Star Probability and NHL probability was at the time of the draft.
What does it say about our 2020 draft or at least Zary? That thing was pretty good for that Bennett draft.
It is not like PLD was a big reach though. The draft is a crap shoot no matter what. I'll be more impressed if their most recent first round pick makes an impact. That was a real reach.
Screw Ehlers, why weren't they brave enough to pick Larkin in that draft. It is easy to look back and say what they should have done.
Nylander and Ehlers weren’t really huge reaches either though. At the time they may have been ranked at 7 and 8. This is why you pay the big bucks for the best scouts, so they don’t just stare at a couple magazine publications and say “hey, we need to draft this guy here.”
That’s an indictment on CSS. Heck, it probably speaks to how flawed most scouting services are when they have Dal Colle as the consensus 5th overall. I just think you have to pick the right team of amateur scouts and believe in their vision. Taking risks and going off the board sometimes is part and parcel. Heck if it was really up to Tod Button, the Flames might have Gaudreau feeding the puck to Kucherov all day right now.
Scouts make mistakes and read players wrong. It's part of the business and a part of life. These kids are 18 when they're being rated and drafted. Development is not linear. You can't cherry pick a few busts and missed picks and say the entire scouting system is flawed. Is the system perfect.... no, but what's the alternative? Pick someone who is ranked #50 across all boards at #4? That's not a reasonable alternative either.
There's not point going back with hindsight and look at what could of been. If you wanna play that game, we should of drafted Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom as well.
In 2014, I remember Ekblad being the consensus #1 by most people, followed by Reinhart, Drai and Bennett in various orders. It just sucks that Sam didn't live up to expectations. Move on.
I'm a big fan of the NHL ES model that Byron Bader put together and based purely on production this is what his Star Probability and NHL probability was at the time of the draft.
Interestingly enough Nylander was actually the top player by this analysis and probably should have been ranked higher. And of course Point falling to the third is ridiculous and he should have never fell that far.
I know it's futile to peruse drafts using hind sight, but imagine if the Flames staff had the foresight to drop down from 4th overall to pick up a mid 1st and and a 2nd, then took Pasternak with the 1st and Point with the 2nd rounder.
We would have all #### bricks too while watching the draft. Like this place would have come unglued had they done that lol.
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You seem to think that the Flames took Sam Bennet because that's what they read in the Hockey News
They do have a scouting team
They picked the guy they thought was best. That most thought was best at that spot.
No, what I’m saying is that they didn’t see the flaws in Sam Bennett’s game that was there from the get go. Like I said, I’m not even convinced that was Tod Button’s top choice. It may have been Burke. I still wonder to this say where Tod Button really would’ve had Brayden Point in his list if Burke and his scouting directive wasn’t in place.
What does it say about our 2020 draft or at least Zary? That thing was pretty good for that Bennett draft.
Zary is ranked #11 and Poirier is #32.
Guess we'll have to see what happens, but it seems the Flames have been getting good value in their picks the last few seasons.
The same people wrote a piece about who they would of drafted using their models over a 10year span. Definitely some interesting stuff and worth a read.
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Sam Bennett put up 91 points in 57 games in his last full year of junior, was physical, could skate, and played center. And was ranked highly by pretty much everyone. If they passed on him to draft someone else because of a gut feeling they would have looked like idiots.
Some high picks just don't pan out. It happens every single year. These kids are 18 years old, it's impossible to look into a crystal ball to see what they look like when they've developed years down the road.
I don't blame the Flames at all for that pick. Just sucks it didn't work out.
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Scouts make mistakes and read players wrong. It's part of the business and a part of life. These kids are 18 when they're being rated and drafted. Development is not linear. You can't cherry pick a few busts and missed picks and say the entire scouting system is flawed. Is the system perfect.... no, but what's the alternative? Pick someone who is ranked #50 across all boards at #4? That's not a reasonable alternative either.
There's not point going back with hindsight and look at what could of been. If you wanna play that game, we should of drafted Datsyuk, Zetterberg and Lidstrom as well.
In 2014, I remember Ekblad being the consensus #1 by most people, followed by Reinhart, Drai and Bennett in various orders. It just sucks that Sam didn't live up to expectations. Move on.
I’m literally talking about going from a #7 ranked prospect vs #4. It’s not a gargantuan leap of faith as some are putting it. I’ve already brought up a recent situation where Jarmo did the same thing. He shocked the NHL world with that decision and up to date, he was right in doing so as PLD has turned into the better player then Puljujarvi.
