Is it racist to not want to try to learn a new language to read road and building names? I think using indigenous names for public roads and buildings is a bit goofy. Like, I kind of want to be able to say and spell them if needed.
Anecdotally...I found this really inconvenient when we were travelling through Hawaii.
We had a rental car and were driving around and you had to try and navigate using some honestly very long and difficult road names.
I propose that we split the difference and all roads should be numbers!
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Anecdotally...I found this really inconvenient when we were travelling through Hawaii.
We had a rental car and were driving around and you had to try and navigate using some honestly very long and difficult road names.
I propose that we split the difference and all roads should be numbers!
I recall that when I was in Hawaii. Google maps and some of the road labels are a little weird in the States. I remember there was a long name, so I paid attention to the exit number.
The exit number had A, B and C. Except when I turned off, I saw XXA, then XXC and I freaked out that I had somehow missed the turn and turned off on C, only to see exit XXB as I was turning down a curve. I was so mad about that turn off. Why the heck would it go A, C, B in the order of the exits?
We don't do this insane labeling in Canada, so going by exit number isn't a huge deal. That being said, I also think the first nations word isn't a major issue if it's like 2-3 syllables. It's when it's like 5+ like in Hawaii that it gets confusing fast if you aren't familiar with those names.
Is it racist to not want to try to learn a new language to read road and building names? I think using indigenous names for public roads and buildings is a bit goofy. Like, I kind of want to be able to say and spell them if needed.
I don't see it as racist. That said, the conscious elimination of indigenous language and culture that took place in Canada was definitely racist, and established racist conditions, including the ongoing treatment of indigenous languages. So, I don't see it as racist, but I think it's fair to say that it's unintentionally aligned with the continuation of conditions created by and perpetuating racism.
Also, it's not really learning a new language. Nobody considers someone an Italian speaker because they can use Napoli and Firenze instead of just Naples and Florence.
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Originally Posted by peter12
There are tons of Indigenous place names in Canada and the United States - we just spell them phonetically so people can properly pronounce them.
Just making things easy for English speakers to read doesn't equate to proper pronunciation. It's just using English names instead of the Indigenous names. Local languages here have a bunch of sounds that simply don't exist in English, so there is no proper pronunciation of them that only uses English sounds.
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I don't see it as racist. That said, the conscious elimination of indigenous language and culture that took place in Canada was definitely racist, and established racist conditions, including the ongoing treatment of indigenous languages. So, I don't see it as racist, but I think it's fair to say that it's unintentionally aligned with the continuation of conditions created by and perpetuating racism.
Also, it's not really learning a new language. Nobody considers someone an Italian speaker because they can use Napoli and Firenze instead of just Naples and Florence.
Just making things easy for English speakers to read doesn't equate to proper pronunciation. It's just using English names instead of the Indigenous names. Local languages here have a bunch of sounds that simply don't exist in English, so there is no proper pronunciation of them that only uses English sounds.
Let's get an approximation then. It's going to see a lot more uptake and is probably better for reconciliation in the aggregate. There are dozens of Indigenous languages in BC, many of them with less than a hundred speakers.
Let's get an approximation then. It's going to see a lot more uptake and is probably better for reconciliation in the aggregate. There are dozens of Indigenous languages in BC, many of them with less than a hundred speakers.
As I said before, the signs with both the English version and the phonetic version are probably the best practical compromise, but you can't get rid of the phonetic version altogether and act like it's still got anything to do with language preservation. If people actually value the preservation of the languages, it's not good enough to simply erase the sounds of the language and use English versions of the name instead.
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As I said before, the signs with both the English version and the phonetic version are probably the best practical compromise, but you can't get rid of the phonetic version altogether and act like it's still got anything to do with language preservation. If people actually value the preservation of the languages, it's not good enough to simply erase the sounds of the language and use English versions of the name instead.
I agree with you there. Look, I think actual preservation for a lot of these languages is an academic exercise at this point. Keep them alive as a specialist or cultural form of study.
If we are going to focus on any Indigenous language, it should be the Cree Algonquin family which actually has over 100,000 speakers in Canada.
I agree with you there. Look, I think actual preservation for a lot of these languages is an academic exercise at this point. Keep them alive as a specialist or cultural form of study.
If we are going to focus on any Indigenous language, it should be the Cree Algonquin family which actually has over 100,000 speakers in Canada.
How the languages are preserved and used is a decision that should be up to the communities to whom the languages belong. It's not a matter for someone outside the community to decide whether or not their language is worth the effort of preserving.
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The problem with any name of a common thing that is too long, wordy, or complicated, is people just refer to it by it's shortest understandable form. See "The 'dome". This school will be Wekwa, not out of disrespect, but out of human nature.
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Much as I'm loathe to spend time on anything to do with Edmonton, the city has a bunch of good short videos on YouTube about all of these names for different wards.
A few more.
Spoiler!
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Is it racist to not want to try to learn a new language to read road and building names? I think using indigenous names for public roads and buildings is a bit goofy. Like, I kind of want to be able to say and spell them if needed.
You jest, but it's legit. I've had some road names so badly mangled via poor pronunciation that I simply couldn't even guess what they were trying to say, and had to have the person calling spell it...
Ive worked with both Cities on a few different building projects and its surprising how much more progressive the policies of Edmonton are over Calgary. Calgary is slowly turning more progressive, but Edmonton is trying to become Vancouver jr.
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Not sure what they expect to happen. If the City creates affordable housing, then everybody complaining about the homeless will say they don't deserve it and it should be allocated to some other low income group.
Not sure what they expect to happen. If the City creates affordable housing, then everybody complaining about the homeless will say they don't deserve it and it should be allocated to some other low income group.
Okay, well, before it even gets to that, Government provided low-income housing has some inherent problems.
First of all...they can be dangerous places. You cram a bunch of people with alcohol, drug and mental health issues into an enclosed environment and thats going to create some problems of its own.
Further to which, people have a tendency to not enjoy being told what to do, so if this housing comes with a bunch of strings attached you'll see people bail on it and stick to the streets.
And then theres the NIMBYs and after all that then you get the people who think the money should be spent saving the South American spotted tree monkey or something like that.
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well it would help if BC had a reasonable long term humane and effective mental health facility and probably needs a good government funded rehabilitation facility as well
