[News] The Edmonton Oilers win the draft lottery and will select 1st overall - Page 42 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Coach · 04-20-2015, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Yes, I think so, but good discussion nonetheless.

I agree. Always goo to have other perspectives.

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Cups don't affect my analysis of a player at all, regardless of what players would or wouldn't trade for them. Playoff MVP's do, but only to the extent they actually reflect quality of play in the postseason. Toews has had some good and some poor years in that regard. Obviously, though, an elite center in the league, I don't mean to imply that I think he's anything less. Just nowhere near Crosby's level.

This whole conversation started about the championship potential of the Oilers. If the amount of Cups (or even moderate overall team success) isn't factoring in, what are we even talking about. "You play to win the game." and the Cup is winning.

One-on-one a guy like Toews may not be as good as Crosby (at individual skills), but I don't think the gap is as large as you suggest, and team success is not even really that close.

CorsiHockeyLeague · 04-20-2015, 01:48 PM

Oh I certainly factor in playoff success, and that includes cups when it comes to teams (to some extent; let's face it, injuries and luck matter an awful lot in a cup run). But an individual on a team doesn't win a stanley cup, and I'm very hesitant to use that as a basis for distinguishing the quality of players. Too many other things go into winning a cup to give any one guy extra credit for it.

Locke · 04-20-2015, 01:54 PM

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Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

Popped up on my Facebook feed.

The fact that he has a mullet makes it even more special.

Coach · 04-20-2015, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Oh I certainly factor in playoff success, and that includes cups when it comes to teams (to some extent; let's face it, injuries and luck matter an awful lot in a cup run). But an individual on a team doesn't win a stanley cup, and I'm very hesitant to use that as a basis for distinguishing the quality of players. Too many other things go into winning a cup to give any one guy extra credit for it.

Everyone gets extra credit for it. Role players on cup teams end up getting better contracts because their viewed as valuable to that win. When comparing players one to one, especially when one has an MVP and one doesn't, yeah I think it distinguishes certain qualities. Maybe not individual on-ice skills, but certainly leadership and overall impact to your teams success (whether that's definitive in the form of points, or intangible in the way you treat your teammates and/or view the game).

Hockey · 04-20-2015, 02:02 PM

A friend of mine does some charity for the same place that Karen Lowe(Kevin's wife) does. Apparently my friend was on the phone with Karen when the news came through that the Oilers had won the lottery and he said he could hear Kevin in the background just screaming "HOLY S###, I CAN'T F#### BELIEVE IT!!! YES!!!!!

CorsiHockeyLeague · 04-20-2015, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MattyC

Everyone gets extra credit for it. Role players on cup teams end up getting better contracts because their viewed as valuable to that win.

I know, and I disagree with this practice. A lot of the "playoff performer" hype is really just media-driven storylines. Separating team success from player contributions is essential to player evaluation imo.

Coach · 04-20-2015, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I know, and I disagree with this practice. A lot of the "playoff performer" hype is really just media-driven storylines. Separating team success from player contributions is essential to player evaluation imo.

I think you're right in many cases, but I do think there is merit to it as well in some cases. Some people just feed off the extra energy and it shines through. On the Fan the other day they talked about what they are seeing from Ferland now vs what he was giving before. Rhett said there's no way he can keep that intensity up for a whole 82 game season. But for a playoff run? You bet. That's why guys get this tag. Not necessarily that they are clutch, but that their type of game feeds off of the energy and intensity of the playoffs, and can generally only be executed in short bursts.

If he (and Jones and Stajan) can prove that they are a valuable piece to shutting down opposition's top players, especially in the playoffs, then I think the credit is warranted.

Azhouse · 04-20-2015, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I don't think the Penguins have ever really had one. Jordan Staal? Maybe? They've been a good team post-Staal, too, though.

They have? They have done nothing post-Staal.

CorsiHockeyLeague · 04-20-2015, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azhouse

They have? They have done nothing post-Staal.

Since 2012? First or second in their division, winning 4 playoff rounds?

Yeah, pretty good?

N-E-B · 04-20-2015, 02:53 PM

McDavid will just make it that much funnier when the Oilers suck again next year

CorsiHockeyLeague · 04-20-2015, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by N-E-B

McDavid will just make it that much funnier when the Oilers suck again next year

In Crosby's first year, the team went 22-46-14 for 58 points. The second leading scorer behind him on the team was Sergei Gonchar.

_Q_ · 04-20-2015, 03:12 PM

Honestly, I can't believe this thread hasn't died yet. Who cares about McDavid or the Oilers.

PaperBagger'14 · 04-20-2015, 03:19 PM

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Originally Posted by _Q_

Honestly, I can't believe this thread hasn't died yet. Who cares about McDavid or the Oilers.

The people that posted in the 800+ pages of the original edmonton is no good thread care about the oilers.

saillias · 04-20-2015, 03:19 PM

The scary thing is, their defense as of today is worse than at the start of the 2014-2015 season. No Petry, who was their only proven top 4 guy.

Now they have just 2 defenseman who are ok at this level. Klefbom and Fayne. They are banking on Nurse or a turn-around season from Nikitin/Schultz/Ference.

northcrunk · 04-20-2015, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Q_

Honestly, I can't believe this thread hasn't died yet. Who cares about McDavid or the Oilers.

No kidding. Why is it a given that McDavid is going to save the oilers? They said the same thing with Hall, RNH and Yakupov. I don't believe it until I see it.

Robbob · 04-20-2015, 03:49 PM

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Originally Posted by Weitz

Quick question: Does the lottery affect the other rounds, or do the oilers pick 3rd in the other rounds?

Lottery is first round only. They return to 3rd after.

_Q_ · 04-20-2015, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by northcrunk

No kidding. Why is it a given that McDavid is going to save the oilers? They said the same thing with Hall, RNH and Yakupov. I don't believe it until I see it.

Even if he does, who cares. It'll be more fun for the Flames to kick the snot out of a half decent team than a group of guys that resemble a pack of constipated bonobos.

MrMastodonFarm · 04-20-2015, 03:52 PM

I'd imagine the Oilers will pick Auston Matthews 1st overall next season too.

GirlySports · 04-20-2015, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

not going to comment on your trade proposal but you can rest assured their 1st isn't on the table...

they will do everything in their power to get the kid from Arizona next year.

Hmmm but its a lottery.. even worse next year for the last place team can fall down to #4

BurningSteel · 04-20-2015, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hockey

A friend of mine does some charity for the same place that Karen Lowe(Kevin's wife) does. Apparently my friend was on the phone with Karen when the news came through that the Oilers had won the lottery and he said he could hear Kevin in the background just screaming "HOLY S###, I CAN'T F#### BELIEVE IT!!! YES!!!!!

Was he c playing nhl15 on Xbox or ps3?