2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Vinny01]

How do people look at Ottawa and think that route makes the most sense for the Flames?

Tkachuk is not sticking around for a full tear down. Markstrom is too good to have this team fully tank (Vancouver drafted 5th as their highest pick in their rebuild).

[getoverit]

I wonder however this plays out including trading of players and dealing with mgmt. will be around the opening of the new rink in Calgary. im guessing were dealing with these timelines, just a thought

[Enoch Root]

Why would we trade our core for another core that isn't working and hasn't been effective for 3 years?

If we're trading our core, it would/should be to rebuild with a new one, not try the same experiment all over again with another non-performing group

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by getoverit

I wonder however this plays out including trading of players and dealing with mgmt. will be around the opening of the new rink in Calgary. im guessing were dealing with these timelines, just a thought

This is an important point with respect to the timing of where the organization is right now.

If we can move some of the core out (some combination of: Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Backlund, Giordano, Tanev, Hanifin) we should be able to acquire a ton of assets in a short period of time.

We could amass a bunch of young talent around Mangiapane, Dube, Valimaki, Andersson, Pelletier, Zary and whoever isn't moved from the prior group.

In 3 years - when the new building is opening - we could be sitting on the emergence of a new, rebuilt young core.

Could be perfect timing.

On the flip side, if management continues on the current path, and remains committed to the current core, we could be looking at a rebuild having to start once the new building is already open.

And as a STH, if they think I am going to keep paying for the current product, and then be faced with huge price increases in 3 years for a team that will need to start a rebuild, well, they have another thing coming.

[activeStick]

I just don't see many trades happening in season this year with covid and quarantines. The offseason is when the deals will start flowing I think.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Why would we trade our core for another core that isn't working and hasn't been effective for 3 years?

If we're trading our core, it would/should be to rebuild with a new one, not try the same experiment all over again with another non-performing group

I think the worst part of the Preds deal is Johansen but it definitely changes the mix and gets rid of players who either don’t want to be here or represent our failed core.

Monahan vs Johansen. Both are playing terrible but the extra money and term make this a loss for Calgary. I liked the suggestion of a Jarnkrok or Arvidsson instead of RyJo

Gaudreau vs Forsberg. The best 2 players in the deal. Gaudreau is a better offensive player but Forsberg is a more complete player.

Ekholm vs Gio. Big win for the Flames here they get a guy who is $3M cheaper and 7 years younger.

Bennett vs Granlund. RFA for UFA. Granlund has top 6 upside

I proposed the deal assuming who the problem members of the core are who seem to be not pulling the rope in the right direction. I just don’t think Gio is the right leader for this group. The only year they won a round coincidentally was when Gio was out.

I also get why people think this would be shuffling the chairs on the deck of Titanic.

[Flamenspiel]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

How do people look at Ottawa and think that route makes the most sense for the Flames?

Tkachuk is not sticking around for a full tear down. Markstrom is too good to have this team fully tank (Vancouver drafted 5th as their highest pick in their rebuild).

Well, I hate to say it, but if the Flames want to tank they can just continue resting Markstrom. No issues there, he will age nicely with less mileage.

[868904]

It’s actually a really good time to rebuild and cut costs. This year there’s no revenue so just get rid of all the big salaries for picks and prospects. Next year, no one know how that will look. Will fans flock back or will it only be at 50% or 75%? What if there are more covid variants? With so much uncertainty, it’s a good plan to operate at the cap floor.

Plus you start the rebuild now, by the time the new building is up, you should be right in that competitive window again.

There’s also a generational type talent in next years draft.

[Monahammer]

Kind of a random thought, but I actually think Gaudreau might love playing in Nashville. It's pretty centrally located, he could probably get a tour bus and get someone to drive him to 90% of his games instead of flying.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by activeStick

I just don't see many trades happening in season this year with covid and quarantines. The offseason is when the deals will start flowing I think.

Quarantines are a factor for sure. But the budget constraints from covid are easily dealt with - take salary back.

Every team is tight with their spending right now, but if you are willing to take dead cap back, you can always make a deal. And you can always get more in return.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by 868904

It’s actually a really good time to rebuild and cut costs. This year there’s no revenue so just get rid of all the big salaries for picks and prospects. Next year, no one know how that will look. Will fans flock back or will it only be at 50% or 75%? What if there are more covid variants? With so much uncertainty, it’s a good plan to operate at the cap floor.

Plus you start the rebuild now, by the time the new building is up, you should be right in that competitive window again.

There’s also a generational type talent in next years draft.

Where are you trading all these big contracts to for only picks and prospects?

[868904]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Where are you trading all these big contracts to for only picks and prospects?

No one is trading for Lucic, but I'm sure there will be takers for Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan. Gio doesn't have much term left and I think could be moved. Flames may have to retain some salary and maybe take back an expiring deal but I'm sure there are deals to be made.

Nothing is happening right now because teams aren't sure they are in the playoffs yet and there's still too much salary and cap hit to be paid out.

So maybe you don't save that much this season, but you can probably save a lot next season and the season thereafter, all of which could see revenues down from before covid. It could take a few years for ticket revenue to come back to the way it was before, which is why I'm saying it's not a bad time to go through a rebuild.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by 868904

It’s actually a really good time to rebuild and cut costs. This year there’s no revenue so just get rid of all the big salaries for picks and prospects. Next year, no one know how that will look. Will fans flock back or will it only be at 50% or 75%? What if there are more covid variants? With so much uncertainty, it’s a good plan to operate at the cap floor.

Plus you start the rebuild now, by the time the new building is up, you should be right in that competitive window again.

There’s also a generational type talent in next years draft.

I don’t get how this team is going to tear it down and build it up to be competitive again in 3 years?

If people want to go full rebuild then be ready to give the organization 5 years before you have any real expectations for the team.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by 868904

It’s actually a really good time to rebuild and cut costs. This year there’s no revenue so just get rid of all the big salaries for picks and prospects. Next year, no one know how that will look. Will fans flock back or will it only be at 50% or 75%? What if there are more covid variants? With so much uncertainty, it’s a good plan to operate at the cap floor.

Plus you start the rebuild now, by the time the new building is up, you should be right in that competitive window again.

There’s also a generational type talent in next years draft.

The way I see it, there's an upside and a downside to trading away assets.

The problem is that hardly anyone has cap space. If you trade players away for picks, you'll only get pennies on the dollar unless cap is retained.
The positive is that once you have the cap space, it's very valuable. You'll have a lot of leverage over teams in future trades.

It evens out IMO. Luckily, most of the Flames valuable players have pretty good contracts. Lindholm is extremely underpaid and probably shouldn't be traded. Gaudreau and Monahan have pretty good contracts, but they're expiring soon. Tkachuk's contract is probably the worst of the bunch, but even he's an RFA upon expiration. So a team like Buffalo that values control could see a lot of value in this. Gio would probably have quite a bit of value of his cap was retained. Backlund would have value if the Flames took some cap back. Even Rittich could have value if teams are desperate for backups at the trade deadline.

In general, I agree it's a good time to rebuild. It might hurt at first, because you m ight not get the value you want if you're trading players away. But in for the long term, it would be great. Especially with another 2 years of flat cap and a strong 2022 draft.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t get how this team is going to tear it down and build it up to be competitive again in 3 years?

If people want to go full rebuild then be ready to give the organization 5 years before you have any real expectations for the team.

We're not competitive now. So what's the difference other than at least being able to have some hope in a new direction?

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I don’t get how this team is going to tear it down and build it up to be competitive again in 3 years?

If people want to go full rebuild then be ready to give the organization 5 years before you have any real expectations for the team.

Whats the alternative? Watch this team slowly fizzle out and in 5 years start the rebuild then with no assets? I don't see why we're delaying the inevitable when this group is barely a bubble team and the on ice product is atrocious.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by 868904

No one is trading for Lucic, but I'm sure there will be takers for Tkachuk, Gaudreau, Monahan. Gio doesn't have much term left and I think could be moved. Flames may have to retain some salary and maybe take back an expiring deal but I'm sure there are deals to be made.

Nothing is happening right now because teams aren't sure they are in the playoffs yet and there's still too much salary and cap hit to be paid out.

So maybe you don't save that much this season, but you can probably save a lot next season and the season thereafter, all of which could see revenues down from before covid. It could take a few years for ticket revenue to come back to the way it was before, which is why I'm saying it's not a bad time to go through a rebuild.

Yes, lots of team would be interested in those players.

I don't see any teams that will take those players without sending cap back in the deal, that's my point.

[MrMike]

With the expansion draft coming, there should be a lot of opportunity to change up the group. Teams would rather trade valuable assets than losing them for free. Probably the best time for one to happen for us.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by nik-

We're not competitive now. So what's the difference other than at least being able to have some hope in a new direction?

Before doing a seismic change I would see what a new and competent coach would do with this group. I don’t think they have had one decent coach throughout their history.

I just don’t agree that a team that won 50 games 2 years ago is not competitive now despite a clear upgrade in goal. It is a good team who is playing terribly because there is some kind of divide in that room and they are being led poorly by the coach and captain

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Yes, lots of team would be interested in those players.

I don't see any teams that will take those players without sending cap back in the deal, that's my point.

Yes, any team interested in these guys is one that’s a contender or close to being one, looking for that last piece. So they already have good players and probably expensive ones. Though because Treliving has done a good job on those contracts, except maybe Tkachuk, they are pretty attractive adds for a PO run. I’d add Backlund in for that reason. On a contender he’s a very useful add.