2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[dino7c]

All those teams that supposedly built with shewed drafting sucked hard for years and made obvious picks.

I would just throw away a pick but a trade for someone like Laf? Heck yeah. A recent first overall for a mid pick would be an absolute steal. Draft isn't that deep guys.

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by dino7c

All those teams that supposedly built with shewed drafting sucked hard for years and made obvious picks.

I would just throw away a pick but a trade for someone like Laf? Heck yeah. A recent first overall for a mid pick would be an absolute steal. Draft isn't that deep guys.

Sure, but that’s not what Laf gets traded for. Most, if not all, teams would make that deal.

[sonq]

Vrana on waivers

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Sure, but that’s not what Laf gets traded for. Most, if not all, teams would make that deal.

I know but some were suggesting it would be a bad thing for the Flames and they wouldn't trade our first for him

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by dino7c

All those teams that supposedly built with shewed drafting sucked hard for years and made obvious picks.

I would just throw away a pick but a trade for someone like Laf? Heck yeah. A recent first overall for a mid pick would be an absolute steal. Draft isn't that deep guys.

A recent first overall showing bust tendencies...

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

The point is, 2023 is expected to be a deep draft, and even when picking in the 16-20 range, you still have a decent shot at getting a very good player.

It's worth mentioning that the Flames did draft Benny and Chucky with early firsts, and drafted one of the best forwards in franchise history with a 4th rounder. So to say that the Flames never sucked hard enough to draft high-end talent is somewhat inaccurate.

Drafts are somewhat unpredictable, even at the best of times. Even if you have the best scouting staff, you can take a player that won't amount to anything while passing on a player who goes on to be a superstar in the league. It happens to all teams from time to time. But the first round is more likely to contain future stars than any other round, and having more picks is better than having fewer.

Bennet was a bust for a 4th overall pick. They have picked Chucky with a high first and that is all that contributed meaningfully to this team. How is drafting a player in the 4th round relevant to not being bad enough to draft elite talent?

They were bad enough once to get an elite player in Chucky, and even that was very lucky. Finishing "Not horrible enough" could have easily cost them drafting him (Just like Bennett vs Drais the year before)

The issue with keeping the draft pick and hoping you find a gem at 16-20 in a deep draft is the time to the NHL and where the team currently is. Best case they play in 3 years. At that point Lindholm and Hanifin may be gone, and Kadri, Markstrum and Hubby all on the downside of their career.

The Flames are most likely looking at a rebuild in 3-4 years, so does having a young player ready to contribute when the team is moving out of their contention window really make sense?

That doesn't mean give the pick away. I also hope they don't trade it for a rental, because I don't think this team is anywhere close to being a cup threat this year.

But I understand the team continuing to go all in with the aging core they have. Their window is really the next 3 years unless two of their existing prospects turn into superstars and become the next core. And usually those types of players don't come from the picks the Flames have used and will have available to them in the short term

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Bennet was a bust for a 4th overall pick. They have picked Chucky with a high first and that is all that contributed meaningfully to this team. How is drafting a player in the 4th round relevant to not being bad enough to draft elite talent?

They were bad enough once to get an elite player in Chucky, and even that was very lucky. Finishing "Not horrible enough" could have easily cost them drafting him (Just like Bennett vs Drais the year before)

The issue with keeping the draft pick and hoping you find a gem at 16-20 in a deep draft is the time to the NHL and where the team currently is. Best case they play in 3 years. At that point Lindholm and Hanifin may be gone, and Kadri, Markstrum and Hubby all on the downside of their career.

The Flames are most likely looking at a rebuild in 3-4 years, so does having a young player ready to contribute when the team is moving out of their contention window really make sense?

That doesn't mean give the pick away. I also hope they don't trade it for a rental, because I don't think this team is anywhere close to being a cup threat this year.

But I understand the team continuing to go all in with the aging core they have. Their window is really the next 3 years unless two of their existing prospects turn into superstars and become the next core. And usually those types of players don't come from the picks the Flames have used and will have available to them in the short term

The Flames drafted the 2nd and third best players in the 2016 draft with the 6th overall pick and 66th overall pick.

How is picking an elite talent in the 4th round relevant to not being bad enough to draft elite talent? Like is that a real question? The relevance is that teams can get elite players through the draft without picking high which the Flames did twice in 5 years with Gaudreau and Fox.

Pretty amusing that you mention the Drai over Bennett discussion like it was the slam dunk pick. Had the Flames drafted third there is an excellent chance they still take Bennett. Most had Drai ranked 4th that year.

I support moving a first in a situation where you add a multi year piece which is what Treliving has always done. Dougie was signed for 6 years when he was traded, Hamonic came with 3 years left on his deal, Toffoli with 2.5, and moving Monahan allowed them to get Kadri for 7 years. If they can get Lafreniere for a mid 1st it would be an easy yes. Rentals fo not make sense for this team.

In 3 years if Zary, Coronato, Pelletier, Wolf, Poirier all are making an impact on this team than perhaps a mid pick in this draft will also be a key contributor and this team won’t be as terrible as some people think?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Bennet was a bust for a 4th overall pick.

Yes, but 4th overall picks tend to become very good or in some cases elite players in the NHL. It's a good spot to pick from even if you didn't get into the top 3.

They have picked Chucky with a high first and that is all that contributed meaningfully to this team.

Nevertheless they got to pick 6th, 4th, and 6th in the not too distant past. Monahan did contribute very meaningfully before injuries derailed him. Bennett never came close to living up to his draft status, and that's unfortunate. But it doesn't change the fact that the Flames got to pick 6th, 4th, and 6th since 2013. Good spots to get needle-moving players and core pieces.

How is drafting a player in the 4th round relevant to not being bad enough to draft elite talent?

Because that's the nature of drafting. Sometimes you miss on a high pick, sometimes you hit on a late pick. More than anything I'm just trying to make the point that not having top 3 picks is not necessarily an impediment to getting great players and building a great team.

The issue with keeping the draft pick and hoping you find a gem at 16-20 in a deep draft is the time to the NHL and where the team currently is. Best case they play in 3 years. At that point Lindholm and Hanifin may be gone, and Kadri, Markstrum and Hubby all on the downside of their career.

The Flames are most likely looking at a rebuild in 3-4 years, so does having a young player ready to contribute when the team is moving out of their contention window really make sense?

The rebuild won't last forever. Draft a quality player in the 2023 draft, even if he isn't ready for prime time right away, he could be a key contributer to the team in his mid 20s when the team is coming out of its rebuild and ascending once again. Or, you can play him up to star status and trade him for a haul.

That doesn't mean give the pick away. I also hope they don't trade it for a rental, because I don't think this team is anywhere close to being a cup threat this year.

IMO, the slow start this year was a combination of strong schedule, lack of puck luck, goaltending struggles, and of course an adjustment period for several key players getting used to a VERY different situation here compared to what they were used to previously. Anyone not expecting a period of adjustment where the team went through some struggles... has unrealistic expectations.

But in recent games you're starting to see the tide turn. 7 of 8 points on the Cali road trip, got goalied vs the Oilers, but followed that up with back to back wins.

Flames are not a cup favorite by any stretch of the imagination. But they have a shot.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

A recent first overall showing bust tendencies...

He might not live up to first overall but he is already better than the average mid to late first rounder.

Guy has a long NHL career ahead

[Monahammer]

"Bust tendencies" but has more even strength points than all but 3 forwards on our team, and gets virtually no pp time. Gallant doesn't like him for some reason, and he's not flashy but people are underselling even his current production, not to mention the potential upside.

[Enoch Root]

there is also the francophone angle - Huberseau might be just what he needs

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

"Bust tendencies" but has more even strength points than all but 3 forwards on our team, and gets virtually no pp time. Gallant doesn't like him for some reason, and he's not flashy but people are underselling even his current production, not to mention the potential upside.

Took a look at his 5 on 5 advanced stats... no matter which ones you look at, it doesn't paint a good picture. He's probably a career 2nd liner, and an average one at that.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Took a look at his 5 on 5 advanced stats... no matter which ones you look at, it doesn't paint a good picture. He's probably a career 2nd liner, and an average one at that.

he's 21 years old, and no one is suggesting that he has been great, just that he still could be great.

[Mathgod]

Sure, but it's his 3rd season in the NHL, if he had greatness in him you'd think he would have shown it by now.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Sure, but it's his 3rd season in the NHL, if he had greatness in him you'd think he would have shown it by now.

But if his downside is a middle 6 producing forward, it's still better than most mid 1st picks.
And then you have the potential upside for something much greater.

That's why he has value.

[theslymonkey]

Until Laf is played LW1 and PP1, we really have no idea what he can do.
His deployment has been a joke up until now.

[Mathgod]

It's a deep draft and I'm not sold on Laf's 200 ft game. No guarantee that he improves in that area either.

Originally Posted by theslymonkey

Until Laf is played LW1 and PP1, we really have no idea what he can do.
His deployment has been a joke up until now.

Tell that to Phillips and let me know what his response is.

[Monahammer]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

It's a deep draft and I'm not sold on Laf's 200 ft game. No guarantee that he improves in that area either.



Tell that to Phillips and let me know what his response is.

I'm a Phillips fan, but I'm curious how you see these situations as alike in any way?

[Calgary4LIfe]

I am always unwilling to write-off a high-end prospect until I see him play for a couple of coaches. At one point, Stamkos looked very much like a complete bust, and when the coaching change was made, suddenly looked amazing. I don't think Gallant is a very good coach, so I would trade the first (and then some) for Lafreniere.

[mile]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1610423373061816320