[News] LeBrun/Dreger - Flames open for Business

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Lindholm for 8 years no thanks. Hanifin would make more sense. Hanifin is probably their best trade chip though so I hope they at least see what kind of offers are out there for him.

Would anyone be surprised if the Flames follow this stretch up with a 5-6-4 run or something to that effect? Does that change the narrative? Doing right by the franchise should not come down to how the team performs over a 15 game stretch (but it is so Flames). This team was supposed to be at peak performance last year and this year before age and contracts start to catch up with it.

Pivoting to extend the window now would be foolish when you can hopefully retool this season by moving Hanifin, Zadorov and Lindholm (I would even move Coleman given how well he's playing). Pairing whatever you get back in terms of young players and picks with Yegor, Rasmus, Weegar, Mangiapane, Backlund, Wolf, Poirier, Coronato, Zary, Pospisil and further down the rung with Morin and Honzek is the path forward.

You just hope that Kadri and Huberdeau can contribute enough in secondary roles for the franchise. Really, I don't see any reason the Flames can't re-invent themselves like the Stars did in a matter of 12-18 months if they commit to it and actually see it through.

[EVERLAST]

I think it's funny the guys that outspokenly stated they didn't care to be here wouldn't re sign blah blah blah and he we are .
Nobody came along and kicked down Craig's door to take these guys away onto greener pastures ....meanwhile some prospects busted their butts to be on the roster and are contributing nicely IMHO .
This ....this is what the new culture should look like from now on. I hope Conny sees this and embraces it. Younger faster and more willing to show worth rather than just showing up for a paycheck to a country club atmosphere that the Flames have been.for.far too long.

[Badgers Nose]

Unless Conroy gets his asking price he’ll ride out the contracts. I don’t think there is any urgency on his part at all. Team is trending the in the right direction. I’m sure he’s constantly surveying the market for the FAs.

I absolutely see a scenario where anyone that won’t sign an extension is going see out their contracts with the Flames.

Then I think they use that cap space along with other assets in the summer to upgrade our #1c and #1 D.

[Badgers Nose]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Would anyone be surprised if the Flames follow this stretch up with a 5-6-4 run or something to that effect? Does that change the narrative? Doing right by the franchise should not come down to how the team performs over a 15 game stretch (but it is so Flames). This team was supposed to be at peak performance last year and this year before age and contracts start to catch up with it.

Pivoting to extend the window now would be foolish when you can hopefully retool this season by moving Hanifin, Zadorov and Lindholm (I would even move Coleman given how well he's playing). Pairing whatever you get back in terms of young players and picks with Yegor, Rasmus, Weegar, Mangiapane, Backlund, Wolf, Poirier, Coronato, Zary, Pospisil and further down the rung with Morin and Honzek is the path forward.

You just hope that Kadri and Huberdeau can contribute enough in secondary roles for the franchise. Really, I don't see any reason the Flames can't re-invent themselves like the Stars did in a matter of 12-18 months if they commit to it and actually see it through.

Extend the window or retool is a semantic game. Same thing. The core is now Huby, Kadri, Backs, Anderson and Marky. Those contracts are not going anywhere.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Treliving???

You have a Paulie like obsession going.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by MrMike

Yeah he had me up to the last part. Either signed or traded by the trade deadline. Assets walking away are not an option.

I hope when it all plays out, we are a playoff team, we re-sign Hanifin, trade Lindholm, and sign one of Tanev and Zadorov which ever one is more reasonable and less term.

I think there's a middle ground to that theory though because cap space is an asset too.

If the Flames were in 1st in their division and considered one of the top six teams in the league to win the cup I think you could argue letting some UFAs walk as top teams generally give up futures to solidify their team.

Not trading assets is pretty much the same thing if you don't double down and trade your own futures to add to it.

The Flames will be Wild Card team #2 or nothing though this year, which completely changes the math in my mind.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Anything short of a Stanley Cup and letting those two walk would be a massive failure. I think you and I can agree this is NOT a Stanley Cup caliber team. Maybe playoffs, but we do not have what it takes to win 4 rounds of playoff hockey with the current talent in the lineup.

So, why delay the inevitable? May as well accumulate picks and prospects for these expiring vets. And it's not like they are bad players, we're trading some good quality and should receive quality back. That not only kickstarts the retool but also gives us a better chance of finding the franchise cornerstones we desperately need.

I don't believe you can always know when you have a Stanley Cup contending team and IMO it's unrealistic to expect the dismantling of a team that is in the middle of the playoff picture. I get that it is enticing to start all over again but you will find yourself in this situation again.

Good teams try to deal with this stuff in the off season since they know they're not going to deal players for picks in the middle of the season. Good teams also let players play out their contacts too. Bad teams are bad and are sellers at the deadline. Maybe one of the reasons they're bad is because they don't make use of their own picks.

The losing streak really colors things for this team and we'd be having a different conversation if it didn't happen. But it did, and I'd like to see if they rattle off an equal winning streak. If the deadline was today, I'd trade them all. But it's not.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

But what you’re saying is inconsistent with what Francis is saying. He’d says it’s the recent success that’s driving it. You and the reporting I mentioned were just about Conroy applying the brakes to the fire sale talk.

Ya, I just meant that the team was waiting. If Francis is insinuating that this was because of recent success then I agree he is wrong.

[DionTheDman]

One thing that I consider pretty important when deciding whether to sell early is that right now a lot of teams have playoff aspirations. The playoff picture is pretty muddy right now. If we sell earlier and acquire first rounders, they could theoretically be higher if we sell to teams that end up faltering. The later we go, the more certain seeding looks, and the higher the chance it is that we'll end up with worse picks.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

This is actually a contradiction to the build through the draft and develop players strategy. If you're going to build through the draft you need to accumulate as many picks possible which means turning every high value asset into the best picks possible. Allowing your two best assets to walk for nothing, regardless of outcome, undercuts the strategy. It would be a massive failure all around.

You can build through the draft with your own picks too. And have a pipeline of talent in the organization so that when a player gets to UFA you're not forced to dumping him at the deadline or signing him to a deal you don't like.

IMO you can't fall in love with this "strategy" of trading your players for picks.

But yeah if you're out of it, it's kind of a no brainer. I guess I'm in the minority but I want to see how the team plays for another month.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

Do you see another Elias Lindholm available somewhere?

More of an issue with the dmen

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Bonded

More of an issue with the dmen

Someone with time should put together a list of the probable sellers and what they are selling. And the buyers and what they need. That's the market Conroy is working in.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Badgers Nose

Unless Conroy gets his asking price he’ll ride out the contracts. I don’t think there is any urgency on his part at all. Team is trending the in the right direction. I’m sure he’s constantly surveying the market for the FAs.

I absolutely see a scenario where anyone that won’t sign an extension is going see out their contracts with the Flames.

Then I think they use that cap space along with other assets in the summer to upgrade our #1c and #1 D.

So they don’t trade anyone and then spend assets to magically improve their #1C and #1D. Sounds realistic lol

[delayedreflex]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

One thing that I consider pretty important when deciding whether to sell early is that right now a lot of teams have playoff aspirations. The playoff picture is pretty muddy right now. If we sell earlier and acquire first rounders, they could theoretically be higher if we sell to teams that end up faltering. The later we go, the more certain seeding looks, and the higher the chance it is that we'll end up with worse picks.

Yeah this is a good point, especially if you are getting first or second round picks back. I feel like 3rd round onward is a bit of a crapshoot anyway so not sure if picking earlier in the rounds makes that big of a difference. It's just hard to say whether the value you'll get back overall is lower right now, because teams on the edge of making the playoffs might not be willing to pay very high prices with a high amount of uncertainty. I see selling early as a bit of a gamble - could pay off if you end up trading with a team that ends up falling off the rails, or otherwise might end up being less value than trading at the deadline.

I'm hoping though that Conroy can leverage Calgary playing better into getting more value for our players, since we in theory might be less desperate to unload everyone.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

One thing that I consider pretty important when deciding whether to sell early is that right now a lot of teams have playoff aspirations. The playoff picture is pretty muddy right now. If we sell earlier and acquire first rounders, they could theoretically be higher if we sell to teams that end up faltering. The later we go, the more certain seeding looks, and the higher the chance it is that we'll end up with worse picks.

True, but when was the last time someone traded their potential lottery pick trying to make the playoffs early?

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

True, but when was the last time someone traded their potential lottery pick trying to make the playoffs early?

NYI last year for Horvat

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Bonded

NYI last year for Horvat

And one would argue they made the playoffs with his help rather than not having him.

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

I don't believe you can always know when you have a Stanley Cup contending team and IMO it's unrealistic to expect the dismantling of a team that is in the middle of the playoff picture. I get that it is enticing to start all over again but you will find yourself in this situation again.

Good teams try to deal with this stuff in the off season since they know they're not going to deal players for picks in the middle of the season. Good teams also let players play out their contacts too. Bad teams are bad and are sellers at the deadline. Maybe one of the reasons they're bad is because they don't make use of their own picks.

The losing streak really colors things for this team and we'd be having a different conversation if it didn't happen. But it did, and I'd like to see if they rattle off an equal winning streak. If the deadline was today, I'd trade them all. But it's not.

We've had Lindholm and Hanifin for half a decade now. We haven't won anything and Lindholm has shown he cannot drive a line on his own and Hanifin can't step up in the playoffs when we needed him to. Zadorov and Tanev, although good in their own right, are replacable. We cannot afford to let anyone walk no matter the record.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by Bonded

NYI last year for Horvat

Ok. That’s still 2 months away when the picture is clearer

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

And one would argue they made the playoffs with his help rather than not having him.




We've had Lindholm and Hanifin for half a decade now. We haven't won anything and Lindholm has shown he cannot drive a line on his own and Hanifin can't step up in the playoffs when we needed him to. Zadorov and Tanev, although good in their own right, are replacable. We cannot afford to let anyone walk no matter the record.

I think Hanifin at 7M is probably fair value for low first/middle pairing dman

Lindholm on the other hand is no way worth what he is reportedly asking

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

True, but when was the last time someone traded their potential lottery pick trying to make the playoffs early?

There were plenty of firsts traded in February last year. If you mean without lottery protection, remember that still could mean it's a lottery pick (just not in the stated year).