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You can be offended by something that happened across the world to a group of people you've never met.
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I totally agree with this. The entire idea that only the group who are allegedly being insulted can speak up is ridiculous. I cringe every time someone says this. It is beyond stupid to think that we can't be insulted at something that is racist, even if it isn't racist against our race.
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As Vulcan stated, just because a group of people are ok with something doesnt mean that a crowd of almost a hundred thousand people mocking their culture is somehow automatically oll korrekt.
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This is one of multiple instances in your post that you're kind of all over the place with the whole "group that is insulted" thing though. Pick one group and talk about them. You don't get to lump all NA imagery, mascots, names, symbols, crowd chants etc into one and then use specific examples of racism to denounce them all.
I only spoke about a crowd doing the "tomahawk chop" or whatever they call it and doing the chant at a seminoles game.
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A lot of african americans are ok with the way they are depicted in media. That doesnt make it fine.
A lot of muslims couldnt give a flying crap about the way muslims are depicted on fox. That doesnt mean there isnt an issue.
This thread is full of ignorance. We're now on the 41st page and people are trying to use the fact that the (SUPER wealthy) seminole tribe is fine with their name being used by a football team; to say 'look, they are ok with it.'
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I'm a little unsure what you are getting at? So you don't like the Seminole Tribe? Or they don't have the right to be offended because they are rich?
What is the real issue here? Is it the crappy treatment of NAs or the use of imagery?
Obviously the ONLY reason anyone complains about the names, images, chants etc of these teams is because they feel that the hundreds of years of mistreatment of these people is somehow worsened by us using these names, images, chants etc. That's obvious right? But it isn't that simple.
For example, no one is offended at our silly caricatures of the irish or vikings or the literally hundreds of other groups that are used for team names, images, chants etc in professional and amateur sports.
So question, if in the next 50 to 100 years we improved the treatment of NAs in Canada and the US and we were all happy campers and they were all healthy and lived great lives with no social issues or poverty, would they then fall into the who cares category like vikings and irish and the literally hundreds of other groups that are used for sports?
Because then the question becomes, if we are only offended by these images because of the plight of the NA peoples and their history, are the images helping or hurting their status in our culture?
I'd say most of them are neutral. Even if we take the worst of the worst, the Redskins, I doubt your average Washington Redskins fan is influenced in the least in how they treat NAs. Nor do I think your average NA is treated any worse because the Redskins exist. So what I'm saying is that while the Redskins name may be offensive to some people, it's existence is more of an example of our collective apathy than it is an example of intentional outright racism. Getting rid of it won't make people care or be less racist towards NAs. It will do nothing to help them in fact. At least with people constantly arguing about it, it brings their overall situation into the spotlight a bit.
What i'm saying is that I actually agree with a lot about what you said about humans being lacking compassion for other groups who aren't like us. But I fundamentally disagree that every single use of NA imagery, chants, names etc is inherently offensive. And until you can provide links and evidence as proof that each and everyone is offensive I won't be convinced. I mean, you can go on being offended but I'd also like to know on what grounds you are. Other than the reasons I listed above.
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These people have been humiliated. We've not only killed millions of their people (indegenous people globally) and taken all of their beautiful land from brazil, to australia, to BC to forida.. but we've also turned their culture into a running joke by not caring about the issues that face them, or even having a genuine interest in learning about them. We've turned their culture into bow trail, the canada winter olympics logo, a tourist attraction here, a football team there, even a rugby dance called the haka. But as much as people love all of those things they dont care about understanding the issues of those people or the fact that their misuse of what are in many instances ancient cultural rights/norms or spiritual rituals, dances, headwear, instruments etc.
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See I think this is your real issue. You are upset at how we've treated them and turned them into this tiny little minority with no substantial honors in our culture, just a few meaningless names on the highway etc.
That's a legit issue. The murder of their people and their culture, the hundreds of years of mistreatment, all of it is bad. It just isn't made worse by Florida State using a well known Seminole tribe member on their helmets.
I deleted your whole rant on catholics because I think it is a bit silly of an analogy and really is just you repeating the same argument but with an analogy.
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Do some people posting here even know what cultural appropriation means?
They seem stuck on factoids like the seminoles being ok with the florida state football team. The bigger picture seems to be lost on some people.
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You must mean me here, no the bigger picture is not lost on me and I'm not sure how you even got that. Do I have to talk about ALL imagery when I respond to a specific post about a single use of imagery?
Furthermore the idea that you think that all images must be offfensive just because some are offensive doesn't make a lot of sense. Again, it's more of the same argument. "they are treated bad so we can NEVER use NA images, chants etc in sports". Why don't we worry about actually helping NA people instead of fighting battles that may offend them?
And unlike your examples, like how black people are portrayed in the media, I'm not sure if some helmet logo is having any negative effect on the treatment of NAs.
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I could understand if people wanted to come here and say..'meh, it doesnt bother me too much tbh'
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I'm pretty sure that is what I said about the Seminole chant.
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but they are posting as if these people arennt some of the most oppressed, ignored and misrepresented people on earth and there is no way these things cant be seen as extremely insensitive at the very best. Outright racist at the worst.
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See now you're doing it again. Taking comments I made about a singular incident and applying it to all use of NA imagery etc.
I think we all know NAs are oppressed and ignored. It is offensive that you would even suggest that people are saying they aren't.
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None of these are flattering logos or depiction of "indians" who are actually not indian at all...
I'm tired of some people's kids on here trying to justify this stupidity.
Stahp.
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Yeah I don't think those are flattering either...
Whose kids? What does that even mean? Aren't we all someones kids? Were you cloned?
And who is justifying it? Why don't you quote them and respond to their comments?
Posts like yours are really easy to make. Don't respond to any specific comments. When you do respond to specific comments, like mine on the Seminoles, pivot and ignore those comments and start talking about other examples that probably are offensive. Then bring up unarguable things like the mistreatment of NAs over the last 500 years that really don't explain why the original thing is offensive. Then make a bunch of broad strokes responses to boogeyman comments that you refer to but don't actually quote.
At the end of the day we agree on multiple things here. Mistreatment of NAs, the need to improve that, humans mistreating other humans based on race, creed, culture etc.
What we fundamentally disagree on is how the use of NA imagery, logos, chants etc in sports harms or doesn't harm their current situation.
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