2017/2018 Trade Speculation and Rumors

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Not sure why you're bringing money into the conversation. Money should follow performance. I'm more interested in his hockey ability than what he's getting paid at hone moment.

Professional hockey players should be held to the standard they set for themselves. Brodie has shown he can be a dynamic player, yet we see this very seldom. If he played consistently to the level we have seen him play to, he's a 6-7 million player. Why he doesn't play to that level, who knows.

We know Brodie is better than the value of his pay cheque. He seems to be playing down to it. Or maybe Brodie's just one of those guys who doesn't live & breathe hockey. Supremely gifted, but at the end of the day, just doesn't care that much.

I brought up money because you mentioned value with regard to how he's been playing when he's already preforming head and shoulders above his monetary value and has been his entire contract. It's all relative.

He's essentially getting paid Kris Russell money, clearly plays a tier (or two) above that yet gets discussed here like he is Russell.

I agree he's capable of being more consistent, but your expectations appear unrealistic. Some players struggle with consistency, and he's a player where if he didn't, would be one of the best defenders in the game making an enormous salary.

As it sits now, it's a huge benefit for us to have him at his current cap hit especially the way he's been playing the last quarter of the season on the 2nd pairing.

[868904]

I know it is absurd to many people, but I think Brodie really is better on the right side. If you watch tape of him, you notice a few things:

- while carrying the puck, he turns to his left much sharper than to his right, this allows him to elude forecheckers much quicker when playing the right side;
- while playing the right side, one of his favourite moves to evade a forechecker is to bounce the puck behind him on the boards and pick it up on his forehand while moving forward into the offensive zone; he can't do this when playing the left side, cause then he goes in to the opposite direction back into the defensive end;
- he just sees the ice better from the right side, could simply be his peripheral vision in his left eye is better than his right eye.
- this will also be mocked, but his right crossovers seem to have more power than his left crossover; which is why he seems to be better able to evade forecheckers while turning left and crossing over with his right. He also looks a lot slower while playing the left side for this reason, I believe.

I know this seems stupid to many, but when I played, I always had stronger sides. It's not just as simple as being left shot - right shot. If you have stronger mechanics on one side of your body or if you have better peripheral vision one eye, that will affect how you play.

Having said all this, I think the Flames really have 4 "right shot" defensemen because that is where Brodie belongs. However, Brodie is also able to play the "left side", though he is considerably weaker doing it. The Flames don't have any other "left shot" defensemen after Gio who can play in the top 4. Kulak hasn't proven he is ready and Valimaki and Kylington are at least a year or two away.

I just don't think you trade Brodie unless you have a second pairing "left shot" defensemen ready.

You can trade a "right shot" defensemen because you really have 4 of them. Actually you have 5 of them, because Anderson appears NHL ready.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Nobody talks about them because they don't happen. What they talk about is the brutal turnovers in his own end that lead to goals against because it happens on a nightly basis. In a season where the Flames goalie is having a borderline Vezina season and he plays with an excellent defensive partner he is a -9. Over the past two years he is -25. He skates really well and he can make a good outlet pass but he is a nightmare in his own zone and under pressure makes very bad decisions with the puck. To say otherwise is pure denial.

It's really quite odd that you're not able to understand the issue I (and others have) with your grossly exaggerated line of thinking with this.

It doesn't "happen on a nightly basis". You're taking infrequent instances where he's struggled, asserting it's all the time, and essentially saying he's a net negative as a result. He's not a "nightmare" in his own end. That's hyperbole.

It would go a long way if you could simply criticize aspects of his game without all the "all the time" + "nightmare" connotations.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

It's really quite odd that you're not able to understand the issue I (and others have) with your grossly exaggerated line of thinking with this.

It doesn't "happen on a nightly basis". You're taking infrequent instances where he's struggled, asserting it's all the time, and essentially saying he's a net negative as a result. He's not a "nightmare" in his own end. That's hyperbole.

It would go a long way if you could simple criticize aspects of his game without all the "all the time" + "nightmare" connotations.

You think it is an exaggeration that It happens on a nightly basis ? Sure it doesn’t always end up in the net, but there are multiple time a game Brodie makes a non NHL caliber play in the defensive end

[Poe969]

So will the trades start up pretty soon or are the teams waiting until the 11th hour?

I'm guessing a team on the outside looking in will be the first to make a panic move and overpay for a guy like Grabner.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

You think it is an exaggeration that It happens on a nightly basis ? Sure it doesn’t always end up in the net, but there are multiple time a game Brodie makes a non NHL caliber play in the defensive end

A "non NHL caliber play" multiple times a game? Sorry, more hyperbole.

If you're trying to suggest a lost puck battle or a turn-over, by that parameter, so does every defender in the league who plays 20+ mins a night.

Brodie has had instances where he's bobbled the puck that's lead to a goal this season that have really stood out. I think the viritol surrounding those frustrating particular plays has spilled over with some people into this "all the time" nonsense. It's not all the time. He has large stretches of playing very well, as he has been since after Christmas as he and Hamonic have looked very solid together.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by 868904

I know it is absurd to many people, but I think Brodie really is better on the right side. If you watch tape of him, you notice a few things:

- while carrying the puck, he turns to his left much sharper than to his right, this allows him to elude forecheckers much quicker when playing the right side;
- while playing the right side, one of his favourite moves to evade a forechecker is to bounce the puck behind him on the boards and pick it up on his forehand while moving forward into the offensive zone; he can't do this when playing the left side, cause then he goes in to the opposite direction back into the defensive end;
- he just sees the ice better from the right side, could simply be his peripheral vision in his left eye is better than his right eye.
- this will also be mocked, but his right crossovers seem to have more power than his left crossover; which is why he seems to be better able to evade forecheckers while turning left and crossing over with his right. He also looks a lot slower while playing the left side for this reason, I believe.

I know this seems stupid to many, but when I played, I always had stronger sides. It's not just as simple as being left shot - right shot. If you have stronger mechanics on one side of your body or if you have better peripheral vision one eye, that will affect how you play.

Having said all this, I think the Flames really have 4 "right shot" defensemen because that is where Brodie belongs. However, Brodie is also able to play the "left side", though he is considerably weaker doing it. The Flames don't have any other "left shot" defensemen after Gio who can play in the top 4. Kulak hasn't proven he is ready and Valimaki and Kylington are at least a year or two away.

I just don't think you trade Brodie unless you have a second pairing "left shot" defensemen ready.

You can trade a "right shot" defensemen because you really have 4 of them. Actually you have 5 of them, because Anderson appears NHL ready.

Totally agree..... offensive tackles in football talk about how hard it is to move from one side to the other, some guys can do it and some can’t. I would say if the coaching staff is adamant about the left/right combinations and Brodie is not at his best in that situation then management should move him somewhere that the system does not require the left/right combination, and if you can get a first and (2) second round picks for him you do that all day everyday.

[Classic_Sniper]

Originally Posted by 868904

I know it is absurd to many people, but I think Brodie really is better on the right side. If you watch tape of him, you notice a few things:

- while carrying the puck, he turns to his left much sharper than to his right, this allows him to elude forecheckers much quicker when playing the right side;
- while playing the right side, one of his favourite moves to evade a forechecker is to bounce the puck behind him on the boards and pick it up on his forehand while moving forward into the offensive zone; he can't do this when playing the left side, cause then he goes in to the opposite direction;
- he just sees the ice better from the right side, could simply be his peripheral vision in his left eye is better than his right eye.
- this will also be mocked, but his right crossovers seem to have more power than his left crossover; which is why he seems to be better able to evade forecheckers while turning left and crossing over with his right. He also looks a lot slower while playing the left side for this reason, I believe.

I know this seems stupid to many, but when I played, I always had stronger sides. It's not just as simple as being left shot - right shot. If you have stronger mechanics on one side of your body or if you have better peripheral vision one eye, that will affect how you play.

Having said all this, I think the Flames really have 4 "right shot" defensemen because that is where Brodie belongs. However, Brodie is also able to play the "left side", though he is considerably weaker doing it. The Flames don't have any other "left shot" defensemen after Gio who can play in the top 4. Kulak hasn't proven he is ready and Valimaki and Kylington are at least a year or two away.

I just don't think you trade Brodie unless you have a second pairing "left shot" defensemen ready.

You can trade a "right shot" defensemen because you really have 4 of them.

You’re not off man. I see the exact same things. His edgework seems to be better on the right side and maybe that little extra speed gives him the time and separation to make better plays. I find he uses the boards better especially with that nifty play you mentioned. His backhand passes are elite and he seems more inclined to jump into the play on the right side.

I looked at his highlight package that AC created for last season and I found that a lot of his great plays just happened to occur on the right side. We’re not utilizing him in the correct way. It’s like how some wingers like Jagr and Ovechkin love to play on their off wing. Personally I think management should’ve recognized this and acquired a left shooting defenseman instead of paying an absolute premium for a right shooting defenseman.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

I brought up money because you mentioned value with regard to how he's been playing when he's already preforming head and shoulders above his monetary value and has been his entire contract. It's all relative.

He's essentially getting paid Kris Russell money, clearly plays a tier (or two) above that yet gets discussed here like he is Russell.

I agree he's capable of being more consistent, but your expectations appear unrealistic. Some players struggle with consistency, and he's a player where if he didn't, would be one of the best defenders in the game making an enormous salary.

As it sits now, it's a huge benefit for us to have him at his current cap hit especially the way he's been playing the last quarter of the season on the 2nd pairing.

Well, if we are to bring money into question, what do you think Brodie will be worth on the open market in 2019/20 as a 29-30 year old? I would be hesitant to give him more than 5/year. He's a 4.5-5.5 second pairing D man soon to be entering the later stages of his prime. The Flames should be looking to deal him this summer.

He may be considered a deal on his current contract, but he's no Duncan Keith (contract or player). Kind of a shame because when he's at his best, he can control a game.

As for the Russell comparison, that's setting the bar awfully low. Just because the Oilers signed him to that head scratching deal shouldn't mean anyone here should be alluding to that as a good contract comparable.

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by 868904

I know it is absurd to many people, but I think Brodie really is better on the right side. If you watch tape of him, you notice a few things:

- while carrying the puck, he turns to his left much sharper than to his right, this allows him to elude forecheckers much quicker when playing the right side;
- while playing the right side, one of his favourite moves to evade a forechecker is to bounce the puck behind him on the boards and pick it up on his forehand while moving forward into the offensive zone; he can't do this when playing the left side, cause then he goes in to the opposite direction back into the defensive end;
- he just sees the ice better from the right side, could simply be his peripheral vision in his left eye is better than his right eye.
- this will also be mocked, but his right crossovers seem to have more power than his left crossover; which is why he seems to be better able to evade forecheckers while turning left and crossing over with his right. He also looks a lot slower while playing the left side for this reason, I believe.

I know this seems stupid to many, but when I played, I always had stronger sides. It's not just as simple as being left shot - right shot. If you have stronger mechanics on one side of your body or if you have better peripheral vision one eye, that will affect how you play.

Having said all this, I think the Flames really have 4 "right shot" defensemen because that is where Brodie belongs. However, Brodie is also able to play the "left side", though he is considerably weaker doing it. The Flames don't have any other "left shot" defensemen after Gio who can play in the top 4. Kulak hasn't proven he is ready and Valimaki and Kylington are at least a year or two away.

I just don't think you trade Brodie unless you have a second pairing "left shot" defensemen ready.

You can trade a "right shot" defensemen because you really have 4 of them. Actually you have 5 of them, because Anderson appears NHL ready.

I agree with you that Brodie is stronger on the right side. I think the insistence on left shot/right shot pairings was and is overemphasized and misplaced. Classic Sniper brought up the Ovechkin example and that is really what we're talking about. Remember the year when they decided he should be right wing and his production was halved?

What I don't agree with is trading Brodie because of this issue. He is being misused and his stock has fallen as a result. if you trade him you don't get full value. He needs to be used properly but I think Treliving played all his cards already and Brodie is the guy most likely to eventually be dealt (in another season or two). The problem is that Treliving invested so much in getting Hamilton and Hamonic as top 4 right shot defensemen - and then re-signed Stone for 3.5M, It's hard to understand the plan for Andersson who I think could play at least as well as Stone right now for a quarter of the salary and there's really no flexibility to move Brodie back to the right. It's a conundrum.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by TOfan

Well, if we are to bring money into question, what do you think Brodie will be worth on the open market in 2019/20 as a 29-30 year old? I would be hesitant to give him more than 5/year. He's a 4.5-5.5 second pairing D man soon to be entering the later stages of his prime. The Flames should be looking to deal him this summer.

He may be considered a deal on his current contract, but he's no Duncan Keith (contract or player). Kind of a shame because when he's at his best, he can control a game.

As for the Russell comparison, that's setting the bar awfully low. Just because the Oilers signed him to that head scratching deal shouldn't mean anyone here should be alluding to that as a good contract comparable.

No but it shows how much value he brings to the team relative to his cap cost which I think is (and has been) a huge benefit over his contract. You were talking about the frustration he isn't playing "to the value he's capable of" and I pointed out I think that's a bit unfair considering he's already of tremendous value relative to his contract as it is. I wish we had him the way he looks at his best all the time, but as I mentioned, that claim can be made about a large number of NHL players.

I definitely think with the depth / youth in our system we wouldn't be looking to sign him when his current deal expires (I'm sure he'll get more money elsewhere) and think he probably will be moved before then. We have the luxury of a stocked defensive cupboard and while they won't all work out I have no doubt a few of them will allowing us to move on from some of the current d-men to upgrade elsewhere. That could start as early as this off-season but I see no way anyone from our top four is moved in the next week or so.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by TOfan

As for the Russell comparison, that's setting the bar awfully low. Just because the Oilers signed him to that head scratching deal shouldn't mean anyone here should be alluding to that as a good contract comparable.

Could not agree with this Russell comment more. Strange how he keeps getting brought up.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

It's really quite odd that you're not able to understand the issue I (and others have) with your grossly exaggerated line of thinking with this.

It doesn't "happen on a nightly basis". You're taking infrequent instances where he's struggled, asserting it's all the time, and essentially saying he's a net negative as a result. He's not a "nightmare" in his own end. That's hyperbole.

It would go a long way if you could simply criticize aspects of his game without all the "all the time" + "nightmare" connotations.

Why would I change "all the time" when it is every game? This is not a one off thing, he has at least one blunder per game that either costs the team a goal or leads to a prime scoring chance. He consistently gets beat in the D zone, the opposition can drive to the net and he lacks the size and strength to push them off the puck. He is decent playing the puck on the boards however as soon as the opposition has control in the offensive zone and generate good puck movement he is clueless as to positioning and gets lost in his coverage. How can you argue he is not a net negative? He is -9 on a team with one of the best D units in the NHL and an all star goalie. Too me you are arguing that because when he played on the right side with Gio and he seemed a much different player he is still that player now despite the overwhelming evidence he is not and so you are making up your own reality to fit your agenda. You say things like he has been solid since Christmas and it is just fiction, the numbers and the actual watching of games says it just isn't reality. We would all like TJ Brodie to be as good as he used to be but saying he is does not make it reality.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Why would I change "all the time" when it is every game? This is not a one off thing, he has at least one blunder per game that either costs the team a goal or leads to a prime scoring chance.

Because as I said, if you are changing the parameters from your grossly exaggerated blanket statements to try and sound like you are simply stating facts, what you're doing is now is saying once a game, and defender who plays 20+ minutes a night makes an error that leads to a scoring chance (because the notion it leads to a goal once a game is flat out wrong). By that logic, you can disparage any defenseman in the league who plays big minutes.

This deep blueline you're talking about completely underwhelmed for three months to begin the season. I'm talking about after Christmas, because there has been noticeable improvement since then with the team playing solid over a stretch that is a quarter of the season. That includes Brodie and his pairing, who have been noticeably improved and easily a second pairing most teams would take in an instant.

The positive aspects of Brodie's game far outweigh the negative ones.

Your notion that he's a net negative, a "nightmare in his own end" and costs the team every night is grossly exaggerated hyperbole. The very tone with which you rant while asserting these things speaks for itself. Again, it would be easier to take you seriously if you could speak with a grounded outlook on these single criticisms rather than try to blanket them all into irate dismissal of the player.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Could not agree with this Russell comment more. Strange how he keeps getting brought up.

Context is an important thing.

You can't talk about Brodie's value without noting he brings a significant amount of positives relative to his low cap hit.

When we look around the league at players making similar money, that point is underlined. Russell is one. Granted it's a bad contract, but defenders are in high demand, and we're seeing more and more of them signed to higher and higher dollar amounts.

The point being discussed that you chimed in on out of context was that while one could assert he's not providing the constant value he might be capable of, he's still providing value leagues above his cap hit. This is an important and positive thing.

[442scotty]

I think everyone can agree that at least one defenceman is going to get traded probably at the draft as I don't think they want to mess with the team chemistry right now. Anderson is ready to come up and possibly even Valimaki (long shot). As much as I like Brodie it just feels like he's gonna be the guy.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Because as I said, if you are changing the parameters from your grossly exaggerated blanket statements to try and sound like you are simply stating facts, what you're doing is now is saying once a game, and defender who plays 20+ minutes a night makes an error that leads to a scoring chance (because the notion it leads to a goal once a game is flat out wrong). By that logic, you can disparage any defenseman in the league who plays big minutes.

This deep blueline you're talking about completely underwhelmed for three months to begin the season. I'm talking about after Christmas, because there has been noticeable improvement since then with the team playing solid over a stretch that is a quarter of the season. That includes Brodie and his pairing, who have been noticeably improved and easily a second pairing most teams would take in an instant.

The positive aspects of Brodie's game far outweigh the negative ones.

Your notion that he's a net negative, a "nightmare in his own end" and costs the team every night is grossly exaggerated hyperbole. The very tone with which you rant while asserting these things speaks for itself. Again, it would be easier to take you seriously if you could speak with a grounded outlook on these single criticisms rather than try to blanket them all into irate dismissal of the player.

OK fair enough, we can agree to disagree on the player, that is what debating hockey is about.

[the_only_turek_fan]

Would people be ok with TJ Brodie for Tyler Johnson?

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by the_only_turek_fan

Would people be ok with TJ Brodie for Tyler Johnson?

I think I would do that deal. Johnson is small but he is also a very effective 2 way player. Signed for $5M for 6 more years so the Flames would be committed to Monahan, Backlund, and Johnson for the next 6 years (Monahan has 5 years left after this year but assume he is a career Flame).

Not sure what that would mean for Jankowski’s future with the team. Could the Flames then Flip Jankowski for Galchenyuk or Gallagher?

[edslunch]

Treliving has stocked the team with D and as a former D who believes in building from the back end out he has given no indication he would trade a top 4 D. Maybe, maybe for a top 6 RW, but probably not. For picks, now, not a chance - that would be conceding the season. Those who would take a deal for picks - have you given up on the season?