Phaneuf,Sjostrom,Aulie traded to leafs for Hagman,Stajan,Mayers,White

[6FeetDeep]

Horrible horrible move by Sutter. He just further ed our future! Not only has he already gave away our first and second round pick in this years draft, he just gave away our best all around defenceman and our best defensive prospect! If this trade does us any good it will be a small surge for this season, but Stajan and White are both UFA's after this season and Mayers is just horrible. Over the last couple seasons Sutter has ravaged our future in different deals and its very frusterating. This team is in a win-now mode even more so than before and I just can't see this roster making a deep run. And next season most likely all well have to show for Phaneuf will be Hagman. If Sutter over pays Stajan and White just to make him not look like an idiot I'll be even more pissed. This is Sutters specialty, making moves that help the team now but hurt the future. Eventually it's going to catch up to him and this team will not be a good team in the future.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by 6FeetDeep

and our best defensive prospect! If this trade does us .

How is Aulie the best defensive prospect.... I would think Negrin, Pelech have more upside

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by flambers

LOL, Even if he is a 3rd line Center (which I doubt but does it matter... ) he still has more goals than any of the Flames Centers....

That speaks more of the poor job Sutter has done, than the player Stajan is. On a good team, Stajan is not a top 6 forward. End of. His points and goals are the product of an average playing having to play above his role because of a poor team.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by flambers

LOL, Even if he is a 3rd line Center (which I doubt but does it matter... ) he still has more goals than any of the Flames Centers....

Stajan is basically Lombardi version 2. He has some top 6 skill, but doesn't display it consistantly enough.

If people are actually expecting him to suddenly become a centre worthy of playing with Iginla, then they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

[LickTheEnvelope]

Originally Posted by flambers

LOL, Even if he is a 3rd line Center (which I doubt but does it matter... ) he still has more goals than any of the Flames Centers....

19 mins/game... and in the Eastern Conference...

[Ice]

Originally Posted by ernie

I haven't read all 37 pages but from a non-flames fan view what I see is a flames team that temporarily becomes deeper up front. How much deeper I'm not sure. I like Stajan but I like him as #2 guy behind an all-star center or a #3 guy on a team with a couple of good centers. I'm not convinced how good he will be in the West.

White is #5 PP specialist with some upside.

Hagman is a streaky but two-way forward...the type of guy the Flames need.

Mayers isn't much of anything.

Now the pieces seem decent and look like a fit. The problem I have with the trade is the biggest glaring issues with the flames are the lack of a #1 center and the lack of another top notch winger (though maybe with increased depth this one goes away). Those holes still exist and I would think you would want to address the big holes if you are going to move a big piece.

Or, you move a big piece, collect some assets and free up salary. You can't make a big move for, say, a number one center if you're kissing the cap and don't have the organizational depth and/or draft picks to make that move. I don't envy GM's when they make these deals, but sometimes the best deals for an organization in the long run might upset fans in the short run. Losing Phaneuf is significant, but not a disaster for this team. Of all the high cap hit players, he was probably the one who would bring the biggest return.

I also haven't read all 37 pages and I'm sure a lot of people are pretty angry or disappointed today. Unfortunately, I think a deal like this had to be done. There is no easy decision when it comes to trading a big name player, and as fans we tend to get emotionally attached to players. I do think the Flames organization is better off in the big picture because of this deal, even though Phaneuf is a significant loss.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by SebC

So who else to we have to subtract to make these extra forwards fit? Backlund and Lundmark? That makes this deal horrible.

Sutter managed to destroy the value of the only impact draft pick he has. Bad contract, bad trade. We'd have been way better off with $6.5M cap space + 4 1st rounders if anyone wanted to sign Phaneuf to an offer sheet than 4.2M + Hagman and the rights to RFA White.

Nobody liked Hagman's contract when the Leafs signed it, so I don't know why we'd like it now. We got a bunch of second liners when what we really need is a 1st liner. We're displacing guys who were finally getting the opportunity they've earned.

Uggh. Sarich for future considerations would've given us just about the same amount of cap space as this deal.

everyone on 960 said that the Hagman signing was a great one by Toronto...not sure where a 25-30 goal man at 3 million is bad; seems about par for the market

[prizefighterinferno]

Originally Posted by flambers

How is Aulie the best defensive prospect.... I would think Negrin, Pelech have more upside

Not to mention Brodie (48p in 48 games, +30) and Erixon

[flambers]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If people are actually expecting him to suddenly become a centre worthy of playing with Iginla, then they are setting themselves up for disappointment.

LOL, every Center on the Flames has played with Iginla.... (Conroy, Backlund, Langkow, Jokinen, Boyd).

Even if he does play 3rd line, he still adds Offense which is a good thing.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Phaneuf = $6.5 million
Sjostrom = $0.75 million

Total out = $ 7.25 million

Hagman = $3 million
Stajan = $1.75 million
Mayers = $1.4 million
White = $0.95 million

Total in = $7.1 million


I don't know how the caps work 40+ games in, and I realize that it is offset by who ends up going to the minors (Lundmark and Backlund probably), but I don't see how it can be $4 million is cap space savings for this season.

One key point you're missing is that if we resign Stajan/Hagman/White we're filling 3 roster spots instead of 1. The accurate comparison is Phaneuf + 2 NHL salaries vs. the cost of Stajan/White/Hagman.

[Dagger]

Originally Posted by prizefighterinferno

Not to mention Brodie (48p in 48 games, +30) and Erixon

Man we are overflowing with NHL level defensive prospects!

[McG]

Originally Posted by Sly

That's why Ian White is one of the most underrated D-men in the league.

i find it hard to believe that his tremendous upside has been somehow missed while playing in the self proclaimed capital of the hockey universe and all of the media that exist there.

i don't see any upside for White...if anything he is overrated due to playing in toronto on a last place team and getting tons of tasty ice time. i guess we are about to find out. if he exceeds expectations because he is one of the most underrated dmen in the league, then his RFA cost goes up. if he doesn't, well then...maybe we should let him walk or trade him since, after all, we have so much "depth on d".

[JayP]

Originally Posted by LickTheEnvelope

19 mins/game... and in the Eastern Conference...

I'd like for someone to once post legitimate data showing that Eastern players simply fall apart after coming to the West.

It's funny - Hagman put up 27 goals (41 points) playing in the big, bad West in 07/08. Then he went over to the weak East and put up 22 goals (42 points) the next year.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by McG

i find it hard to believe that his tremendous upside has been somehow missed while playing in the self proclaimed capital of the hockey universe and all of the media that exist there.

i don't see any upside for White...if anything he is overrated due to playing in toronto on a last place team and getting tons of tasty ice time. i guess we are about to find out. if he exceeds expectations because he is one of the most underrated dmen in the league, then his RFA cost goes up. if he doesn't, well then...maybe we should let him walk or trade him since, after all, we have so much "depth on d".

I believe that is what Mackenzie said, he said White is playing at 100% (i.e. at his potential)

[FlamesAllTheWay]

One of the pundits on TSN said it best (and I paraphrase):

You don't trade a guy like Dion Phaneuf to shake things up or to get more offensive depth at forward. You trade him to get him out of town.

The guy was a cancer in the room. A distraction, and that was the driving force behind this trade. Everyone here knows he will become even better than he is now. Contend for the Norris. Likely be a franchise D-man somewhere. Play for Team Canada. It wont come as a suprise when it happens either. Yet, we traded him anyways. People can counter with "show me proof" all they want. This is something that has been lingering around this team for the past few seasons and never really goes away. A little more than, say, just a random Eklund blog post that quickly fades into oblivion. In that sense this trade becomes a bit of an addition by subtraction as well. Also lowered Phaneuf's trade value a bit... we had to throw in a good prospect along with Dion to make this happen.

Good return, IMO. We are a better team today than we were yesterday. Hagman and Stajan can pitch in with offence here and there. White has been playing great in Toronto this year. Second best D from what I understand. Cheap too. Biggest thing is that we now have options on the ice and off the ice, with regards to the salary cap. Sutter may finally understand that putting all your eggs into one basket and then hoping your bargain players overachieve may not be the best approach to building a team. Probably signals a bit of a shift in his whole managerial philosophy.

Very happy with this. I think we will start to see some positive change with this team as a result.

[McG]

Originally Posted by flambers

I believe that is what Mackenzie said, he said White is playing at 100% (i.e. at his potential)

no disagreement. i was responding to sly who was saying that white was "one of the most underrated dmen in the league (TM)" (who is also an RFA). it can't be both though.

its not about white personally, it is about the lack of return. if it was schenn instead of white then i think it would be more palatable and would make all of the salary cap excuses make sense.

[zarrell]

Ha. Didn't turn the computer on or listen to the radio/tv all day and I just find out now. Shocked and yet not at the same time.

The only thing I will add, that has probably been mentioned already is the emergence of Mark Giordano makes this trade at least slightly palatable for me.

[Hack&Lube]

Remember guys - we essentially got Bouwmeester for free this offseason (well, Leopold who arrived here for almost nothing too).

There are always players to be had when they hit UFA. Losing Dion is not a zero sum thing, we can always get good players.

[Moose]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

There are always players to be had when they hit UFA. Losing Dion is not a zero sum thing, we can always get good players.

Living in Ontario for the past 7 years, I can't tell you how many times I've heard Leafs fans say this. That's not a good parallel to draw.

[6FeetDeep]

Originally Posted by Dagger

Man we are overflowing with NHL level defensive prospects!

How many have top pairing potential? Sutter always drafts the "safe" pick which is annoying but it dosent even matter because we got no draft picks this year anyways. This was a quick fix deal by Sutter and it seriously has hurt our future which he has done alot of. I feel like puking as this deal might get us into the playoffs but this and the Jokinen deal plus a few more Sutter has made has seriously hurt out future. Couple this with bad drafting and player development which puts us with 1 of the worste prospect pools in the NHL, the future looks terrible and take your homer glasses off if your happy with Sutters trades!