[News] With the 144th OA pick, the Flames select LW Ethan Wyttenbach

[SuperMatt18]

He'd also be AHL eligible since he's drafted out of the NCAA.

No way he's going back to college IMO

[the-rasta-masta]

Plus he'd be eligible for AHL too wouldn't he, over college?

[FlamesAddiction]

How often does a 1st or 2nd OA pick not sign a professional deal the same year they are drafted?

It can't be that common.

[Mitch]

Staying in the NCAA an extra year would significantly impact the career earnings of a 1st/2nd OA pick. That's likely the bigger priority for these guys, I doubt they're concerned about hampering their development given their pedigree. I don't see any way McKenna isn't playing in the NHL next year.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Mitch

Staying in the NCAA an extra year would significantly impact the career earnings of a 1st/2nd OA pick. That's likely the bigger priority for these guys, I doubt they're concerned about hampering their development given their pedigree. I don't see any way McKenna isn't playing in the NHL next year.

McKenna is playing at Penn State. McKenna is rumoured to be getting paid in the low 7 figures at Penn State. Pennsylvania uses a flat 3.07% tax rate. He is making more and pocketing more money as compared to his ELC, and it isn't close.


As the salary cap rises, so will the average contracts. Once he goes to the NHL, and his ELC expires after 3 seasons, he can sign an 8 year deal. With a higher cap hit, it will certainly bridge the gap of a year's worth of losses that it would incur. Plus, being further physically developed may give him an advantage at achieving some of the bonuses on his ELC, like being a Calder Winner.


As for the NCAA vs AHL - I see it as two distinct leagues with their own advantages, rather than the same thing. I would want a prospect to go to the AHL if he just needed time to develop his skills and adjust to the pro game. However, if I have a prospect that is less physically developed, I woudn't want him in the AHL, I would prefer him in the NCAA where he will have more rest between games to work out, and those NCAA facilities put NHL training facilities to shame. So for a prospect like McKenna, I would prefer him in the NCAA over the AHL and it isn't even close. I would guarantee that McKenna never sees the AHL unless he retires and wants to start coaching.


I think there is a 95% chance McKenna plays in the NHL next season, but if he doesn't, it's because he is back in the NCAA working on his physique while enjoying the college life with a 7 figure salary.

[PeteMoss]

No offense - but its crazy talk to want a guy in NCAA vs AHL if he's an elite prospect (i.e. the McKenna level, Wyttenbach is a different story who may benefit from NCAA)

You've got classes (which no matter how little you care, still take time), you're playing against lesser talent, NCAA limits around practice, etc. Add in the whole campus full of young dumb kids (see McKenna getting arrested a few months ago).

He's going to learn way more in the AHL playing against men vs NCAA playing against lesser talent. And you get him in your organization and can work on what you want him to work vs leaning on bad habits in NCAA.

[Mitch]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

McKenna is playing at Penn State. McKenna is rumoured to be getting paid in the low 7 figures at Penn State. Pennsylvania uses a flat 3.07% tax rate. He is making more and pocketing more money as compared to his ELC, and it isn't close.


As the salary cap rises, so will the average contracts. Once he goes to the NHL, and his ELC expires after 3 seasons, he can sign an 8 year deal. With a higher cap hit, it will certainly bridge the gap of a year's worth of losses that it would incur. Plus, being further physically developed may give him an advantage at achieving some of the bonuses on his ELC, like being a Calder Winner.

He would have to wait an additional year for UFA status which is where the money would be lost.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

No offense - but its crazy talk to want a guy in NCAA vs AHL if he's an elite prospect (i.e. the McKenna level, Wyttenbach is a different story who may benefit from NCAA)

You've got classes (which no matter how little you care, still take time), you're playing against lesser talent, NCAA limits around practice, etc. Add in the whole campus full of young dumb kids (see McKenna getting arrested a few months ago).

He's going to learn way more in the AHL playing against men vs NCAA playing against lesser talent. And you get him in your organization and can work on what you want him to work vs leaning on bad habits in NCAA.

It does depend on the individual. The ideal development path is different for each person. For some kids, particularly less physically developed ones, having them get overwhelmed and play a secondary role in a men's league isn't going to help them. The NCAA can act as a bridge between junior and a men's league. In football, for example, NCAA is definitely the way to go.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

No offense - but its crazy talk to want a guy in NCAA vs AHL if he's an elite prospect (i.e. the McKenna level, Wyttenbach is a different story who may benefit from NCAA)

You've got classes (which no matter how little you care, still take time), you're playing against lesser talent, NCAA limits around practice, etc. Add in the whole campus full of young dumb kids (see McKenna getting arrested a few months ago).

He's going to learn way more in the AHL playing against men vs NCAA playing against lesser talent. And you get him in your organization and can work on what you want him to work vs leaning on bad habits in NCAA.

What will he be learning in the AHL? He is already beyond that league, no? It isn't about his skill-set not being at the NHL level, but rather his physical ability to play at the NHL level that may come into question. So from that standpoint, where is he best served next season to address this (potential) issue? It is the NCAA and it isn't even close.


What would be CRAZY would be to pull him out of the NCAA with his 7 figure income, and then ship him to the AHL so he can earn a 5 figure income. Again, there is ZERO chance he ever sets foot in the AHL, unless he retires and wants to start his coaching career, or perhaps as part of a conditioning stint recovering form a long-term injury (even then, very doubtful).


AHL is better for adjusting to the NHL, unquestionably. Is this the concern with McKenna? Nope. Not at all.
NCAA is better for putting on some weight, unquestionably. Is this the concern with McKenna? Yes, the one and only concern actually.


Add in the HUGE disparity of his paycheck (NHL vs AHL pay on his max rookie deal - IIRC, 85k in the AHL vs 1+ million in the NCAA), and it would be crazy to assume the Flames would do that to him.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Mitch

He would have to wait an additional year for UFA status which is where the money would be lost.

Yes, but that is largely mitigated both from his existing paycheck and getting only a 3.07% tax rate, plus potentially a larger deal (look at different the salaries were between the Monahan + Gaudreau signings, and the McDavid and Draisaitl signings). Gaudreau would have probably made more money on his contract had he not burned a year on his deal, right? Plus, another year of maturity and size on McKenna may practically guarantee that he gets his bonuses - 3.5 million I believe - on his ELC.


It is likely that he loses some money by staying in the NCAA, but I don't think much. It really should be what is best for his future anyway. If he is of sleight build still (as in he hasn't been putting on enough muscle thus far this season), then that's where the argument begins. If he is physically ready enough (a certain threshold that the Flames' trainers deem fit), then he goes to the NHL. That's how I see it. What I don't see is the AHL being an option for him.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

What will he be learning in the AHL? He is already beyond that league, no? It isn't about his skill-set not being at the NHL level, but rather his physical ability to play at the NHL level that may come into question. So from that standpoint, where is he best served next season to address this (potential) issue? It is the NCAA and it isn't even close.


What would be CRAZY would be to pull him out of the NCAA with his 7 figure income, and then ship him to the AHL so he can earn a 5 figure income. Again, there is ZERO chance he ever sets foot in the AHL, unless he retires and wants to start his coaching career, or perhaps as part of a conditioning stint recovering form a long-term injury (even then, very doubtful).


AHL is better for adjusting to the NHL, unquestionably. Is this the concern with McKenna? Nope. Not at all.
NCAA is better for putting on some weight, unquestionably. Is this the concern with McKenna? Yes, the one and only concern actually.


Add in the HUGE disparity of his paycheck (NHL vs AHL pay on his max rookie deal - IIRC, 85k in the AHL vs 1+ million in the NCAA), and it would be crazy to assume the Flames would do that to him.

The money thing is McKenna issue about him signing a contract or not - so not the Flames concern.

I disagree that the NCAA is better for putting unquestionably and also disagree that putting on weight is big thing for most of these guys anyways. McKenna can put on weight all he wants and he's still going to be outmuscled in the NHL. Its about learning to adapt to the play.

Parekh doesn't get rocked as often as he did earlier in the season - its not because he put on 15 pounds of muscle in the past few months. He's adapting to the players.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

The money thing is McKenna issue about him signing a contract or not - so not the Flames concern.

I disagree that the NCAA is better for putting unquestionably and also disagree that putting on weight is big thing for most of these guys anyways. McKenna can put on weight all he wants and he's still going to be outmuscled in the NHL. Its about learning to adapt to the play.

Parekh doesn't get rocked as often as he did earlier in the season - its not because he put on 15 pounds of muscle in the past few months. He's adapting to the players.

Ah, I understand where you are coming from now.


100% I agree that Parekh's issues mostly stemmed from a lack of awareness. Weight training does help, but yes, I have also made the point in the past that it was Parekh's on-ice awareness that was his biggest obstacle, rather than putting on weight. 100% agree with you on that, and if that's your concern with McKenna, then yes, I understand why you would be preferring him to go the AHL route over the NCAA route. Even with the influx of top-end CHL players, the AHL is still a faster and more difficult league. Gotcha!


I view McKenna differently. I think his on-ice awareness is already at a high level. I see him avoid hits, and when he takes hits, he sees them coming. I am sure he has had some heavy hits on him as all players will eventually get hit hard, but I haven't seen him taking contact that he wasn't ready for. I think his issue is mainly from his frame. I don't think he ever will be a 'robust' type of build, but weight training does make your tendons and ligaments stronger, and your bones to thicken up a bit, as well as your muscles. This does help against injury. Opposing players could rag-doll him too easily, puck battles, going to the corners, etc. Hughes (and Pettersson) got abused in their first year or two. Had they benefited from an additional year in the NCAA (in Hughes case), I think it probably would have helped. I don't think it was an awareness issue with Hughes either.


Anyway, I get where we have a difference of opinion now. It is most likely a moot argument anyway, since I will also be surprised if McKenna isn't in the NHL next season.

[Reggie Dunlop]

I can see the drafting and subsequent signing of McKenna triggering a surge of Flames prospects like Reschny and Wyttenbach clamouring to turn pro sooner.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by blankall

It does depend on the individual. The ideal development path is different for each person. For some kids, particularly less physically developed ones, having them get overwhelmed and play a secondary role in a men's league isn't going to help them. The NCAA can act as a bridge between junior and a men's league. In football, for example, NCAA is definitely the way to go.

Can't compare football to hockey. In hockey, there are a variety of ways to develop your players in multiple-tiered leagues. For football, it's NCAA or nothing. VERY few are walk-ons or come from the CFL. Majority of talent for NFL come from the NCAA. For NHL, you can find talent around the world.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Reggie Dunlop

I can see the drafting and subsequent signing of McKenna triggering a surge of Flames prospects like Reschny and Wyttenbach clamouring to turn pro sooner.

Apples and oranges.

McKenna is earning big bucks in the NCAA, but he's the highest paid player by a significant margin and guy like Reschny and Wyttenbach are not getting paid anything significant.

[Groot]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

Yes, but that is largely mitigated both from his existing paycheck and getting only a 3.07% tax rate, plus potentially a larger deal (look at different the salaries were between the Monahan + Gaudreau signings, and the McDavid and Draisaitl signings). Gaudreau would have probably made more money on his contract had he not burned a year on his deal, right? Plus, another year of maturity and size on McKenna may practically guarantee that he gets his bonuses - 3.5 million I believe - on his ELC.


It is likely that he loses some money by staying in the NCAA, but I don't think much. It really should be what is best for his future anyway. If he is of sleight build still (as in he hasn't been putting on enough muscle thus far this season), then that's where the argument begins. If he is physically ready enough (a certain threshold that the Flames' trainers deem fit), then he goes to the NHL. That's how I see it. What I don't see is the AHL being an option for him.

No offense, but the major basis of your position is McKenna making low 7 figures in NIL money, when that is definitely not the case. Last rumor had it in the area of $700k, but that is still unconfirmed.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mitch

Staying in the NCAA an extra year would significantly impact the career earnings of a 1st/2nd OA pick. That's likely the bigger priority for these guys, I doubt they're concerned about hampering their development given their pedigree. I don't see any way McKenna isn't playing in the NHL next year.

You can count 1OAs for the last 30 years that didn't play full time in the NHL in year one on one hand I bet. Owen Power was the last one. I think Yakupov didn't but that was because of the lockout (same with Ovie). Erik Johnson chose another year of college. MAF played the second half of year one in junior and the minors (but it's believed the Pens didn't want to pay him his bonus because they were cash strapped).

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Groot

No offense, but the major basis of your position is McKenna making low 7 figures in NIL money, when that is definitely not the case. Last rumor had it in the area of $700k, but that is still unconfirmed.

I wonder too with his legal issues if any of that money is at risk. Like are there any code of conduct clauses and stuff like that?

[Reggie Dunlop]

Originally Posted by blankall

Apples and oranges.

McKenna is earning big bucks in the NCAA, but he's the highest paid player by a significant margin and guy like Reschny and Wyttenbach are not getting paid anything significant.

No, but they see a young team on the rise.... and want to get in on the ground floor.