ECSF: Toronto Maple Leafs [ATL2] vs Florida Panthers [WC2] - Florida Wins 4-1

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I still think Carolina is the best shot at the cup, and hypothetically if it were to happen, dismantling the Oilers.

They're the most solid team holding up to its reputation in the playoffs currently.

Just imagine how good they would look right now if they had Svechnikov, Pacioretty, Teravainen in the lineup? If they were healthy they have the roster to pretty well run the table against anyone.

[EldrickOnIce]

We may need the Canes to do it again. I hope not, but

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by TheSquatch

Wideman and Stajan were both unmoveable at that time. Not 8 years or anything, but critical trades/free agent signings that didn't move the needle for the club.

You said that Treliving walked into a huge mess with a "bunch" of bad contracts.

Wideman in 2014-15 was a good contract. A solid veteran dman on a reasonable contract with 3 years left. He was a #3 who filled in with Russell on the top pairing when Gio went down in the playoffs and was fine. It all fell apart when he was badly concussed and then hit an official but he was easily moveable when Treliving was hired.

Stajan's contract wasn't amazing but it wasn't that bad for a rebuilding club. 4 years at $3.125 would have been tough to move but it was hardly a "huge mess". It shouldn't have mattered anyway since the team should have been rebuilding for at least 2-3 more years.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jacks

You said that Treliving walked into a huge mess with a "bunch" of bad contracts.

Wideman in 2014-15 was a good contract. A solid veteran dman on a reasonable contract with 3 years left. He was a #3 who filled in with Russell on the top pairing when Gio went down in the playoffs and was fine. It all fell apart when he was badly concussed and then hit an official but he was easily moveable when Treliving was hired.

Stajan's contract wasn't amazing but it wasn't that bad for a rebuilding club. 4 years at $3.125 would have been tough to move but it was hardly a "huge mess". It shouldn't have mattered anyway since the team should have been rebuilding for at least 2-3 more years.

The one positive thing Burke ever said about Feaster was that the books were cleared. So whilke I have a lot of distain for Feaster, yeah, he was not on the hook for a lot of bad deals, and there weren't too many Sutter leftovers.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by hah

It's interesting to note that the efforts of former Flames defensemen, Brodie, Gio, and 7-gamer Gustafsson, seem to be falling short for the Leafs, especially when compared to the praised performances, rightly so of Tkachuk, Bennet, and not really Lomberg.If the Leafs were leading the series, would we be having the same remorse for Gio etc?

My favourite Gustafsson memory was during the bubble playoffs on the powerplay someone dumped the puck into our end and he watched the puck go in while a Star charged in and he just stopped and went for a line change.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Just imagine how good they would look right now if they had Svechnikov, Pacioretty, Teravainen in the lineup? If they were healthy they have the roster to pretty well run the table against anyone.

That's why I think Florida will beat them. Missing three top six wingers is crazy. But then if the finals is Florida-Edmonton McDavid and Drai will shred their defense, going against the likes of Staal and Ekblad who can't skate. It's a total nightmare scenario.

[JohnnyB]

Feaster also left Tre with both Johnny and Monahan, who were Feaster picks but formed the bedrock of the team's progress under Treliving and made the team worth watching. What would the team have been without those two?

Really, Tre got the best out of Feaster picks and we're watching Florida (and the Rangers) get the best out of Treliving picks who Tre lost before they hit their prime. You could argue that Treliving's whole tenure was built around a Feaster pick, and when Tre lost that pick to Columbus as a free agent the writing was on the wall for him as GM.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Feaster also left Tre with both Johnny and Monahan, who were Feaster picks but formed the bedrock of the team's progress under Treliving and made the team worth watching. What would the team have been without those two?

Really, Tre got the best out of Feaster picks and we're watching Florida (and the Rangers) get the best out of Treliving picks who Tre lost before they hit their prime. You could argue that Treliving's whole tenure was built around a Feaster pick, and when Tre lost that pick to Columbus as a free agent the writing was on the wall for him as GM.

Don't think they are Feaster picks, but Button picks and he was given the green light to go with the list.

Carolina taking Lindholm a spot before made the Monahan selection easy.

I think the Feaster pick was Mark Jankowski.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Everyone forgets that two seasons ago Fla was a top team and they were ousted by a TB team who (a) rested for the year and (b) wennt to the Cup finals. And then they added swapped out Huberdeau's points seamlessly and now their goalie is playing up to his contract more or less.

Fans and even NHL management overreact to playoff success / failures IMO. (Flames management overreacted to playoff losses in both 2009, and 2019 IMO)

The best way to win the cup is to be a consistently good (100+ point) regular season team.

Because come playoff time luck, timing, and goaltending play a huge role in determining the outcome.

Look at Florida and Calgary.

Florida: 92 points
Calgary: 93 points

Last 20 Games:
Florida: 12-6-2 (26 points)
Flames: 11-5-4 (26 points)

But Florida gets in the playoffs because of the conference they were in and the Flames don't.

Flames are in turmoil, and the Panthers are the hottest team in the league right now because of circumstance. Boston was in a bit of injury issue as Krejci and Bergeron were not close to 100% and it burned them. Now they are taking it to a Leafs team who was honestly lucky to get past Tampa (3 OT wins), and who wasn't a great match up for the speed and grit that Florida's forwards bring.

Timing, Luck, Goaltending.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Timing, Luck, Goaltending.

Especially in this game. People are so quick to attribute results to some action or inaction, when luck and random variation play such an important role.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Don't think they are Feaster picks, but Button picks and he was given the green light to go with the list.

Carolina taking Lindholm a spot before made the Monahan selection easy.

I think the Feaster pick was Mark Jankowski.

Whether the picks were Feaster's or Button's and where Lindholm was drafted is beside the point.

Tre didn't draft those guys. He walked into a situation where they had already been drafted. They were the core of Treliving's team for most of those years, alongside Gio who also pre-dated Treliving.

That core is now playing for other teams, and the would-be core players drafted under Treliving are also playing for other teams.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Fans and even NHL management overreact to playoff success / failures IMO.

Hell, one of the reasons I loathe hockey during playoff time is the wild swings in reaction from game to game. One bad game and a series is over, and then a good game next time and the Cup is destined.


Look at the Carolina-NJ series. After 2 games it was already done. Now it's a series.

[dino7c]

Brodie is getting absolutely ripped on Toronto sports radio for his play on the OT goal....he isn't alone though

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Brodie is getting absolutely ripped on Toronto sports radio for his play on the OT goal....he isn't alone though

Honestly he's put in a tough spot by the other 4 guys on the ice.

At least he's the only one actually trying to defend but really nobody else is offering any type of support at all.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Whether the picks were Feaster's or Button's and where Lindholm was drafted is beside the point.

Tre didn't draft those guys. He walked into a situation where they had already been drafted. They were the core of Treliving's team for most of those years, alongside Gio who also pre-dated Treliving.

That core is now playing for other teams, and the would-be core players drafted under Treliving are also playing for other teams.

GMs largely don't draft anyone when it comes down to this type of analysis. But this team was built to win in year 5-8 of his tenure, not now, IMO. I suspect he knew he'd start to shed players starting at the back end og Gio's contract and on the UFA negotiations with the top line players. That's why he loaded up with Markstrom, Tanev, Lindholm, Hanifin, and yes, even James Neal - that's why he went hard for Peters as "his" coach. IMO 2018-19 was supposed to be the big year but Smith shat the bed and Neal was horrific. So then he started moving deck chairs in goal and also at the back end.

[OutOfTheCube]

Originally Posted by Ped

Hell, one of the reasons I loathe hockey during playoff time is the wild swings in reaction from game to game. One bad game and a series is over, and then a good game next time and the Cup is destined.


Look at the Carolina-NJ series. After 2 games it was already done. Now it's a series.

Yep, everyone in this thread already has Edmonton penciled in to the final as well when they can easily lose the next three games, let alone the whole next round.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by OutOfTheCube

Yep, everyone in this thread already has Edmonton penciled in to the final as well when they can easily lose the next three games, let alone the whole next round.

Hasty generalizations at all? People are talking about the Leafs and Panthers in this thread. The Oilers thread is down the hall.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

GMs largely don't draft anyone when it comes down to this type of analysis. But this team was built to win in year 5-8 of his tenure, not now, IMO. I suspect he knew he'd start to shed players starting at the back end og Gio's contract and on the UFA negotiations with the top line players. That's why he loaded up with Markstrom, Tanev, Lindholm, Hanifin, and yes, even James Neal - that's why he went hard for Peters as "his" coach. IMO 2018-19 was supposed to be the big year but Smith shat the bed and Neal was horrific. So then he started moving deck chairs in goal and also at the back end.

I mostly agree. I was just addressing the discussion about what Tre walked into when he joined the Flames.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by Saqe

That's why I think Florida will beat them. Missing three top six wingers is crazy. But then if the finals is Florida-Edmonton McDavid and Drai will shred their defense, going against the likes of Staal and Ekblad who can't skate. It's a total nightmare scenario.

Not to mention, you just KNOW Bobrovsky is going to turn back into a pumpkin the moment we need him to step up the most.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Honestly he's put in a tough spot by the other 4 guys on the ice.

At least he's the only one actually trying to defend but really nobody else is offering any type of support at all.

I guess he was trying to defend. Chasing a guy behind your own net is bad defending though, I'm sure he realized as the play was developing how much trouble he was in. Very rare to see that kind of clean wrap around attempt anymore.