Iggy do you have stats on pay comparisons between Public Union positions and private union positions.
I remember seeing it somewhere but can't find it. I recall that private sector union positions make less than their public sector counterparts for comparable jobs.
So while unionization benefits the worker it shows that the government does not fight back hard enough in negotiations or that due to the lack of moral hazard the unions are more likely to negotiate harder.
Some specifics for a pertinent example:
Quote:
Canada Post has also analyzed the composition of its labour costs and compared them to its competitors, and its subsidiary, Purolator. The analysis shows that Canada Post has the highest level of total wages and benefits, as well as the highest productive hourly rate (i.e., labour cost per hour worked), for both its “inside” sorting workforce and its “outside” delivery workforce. Following are some details:
Sorting/inside workers
Salary and benefits: Approximately 44 per cent higher than competitors
Labour rate per productive hour: Approximately 68% higher than competitors
Delivery/outside workers
Salary and benefits: Approximately 11 per cent higher than competitors
Labour rate per productive hour: Approximately 26% higher than competitors
Benefit costs at Canada Post are 60% higher than competitors. Benefits provided by Canada Post to its employees represent 40% of salary compared to 25% for competitors. Cost of the pension plan is responsible for the majority of this variance but other benefits, such as post-retirement benefits, also explain the difference.
It's no wonder Canada Post is going under, almost entirely the fault of the union.
3) When markets fail, governments need to intervene.
The root cause of the problem isn't that markets failed. In a true free market system, we would have had at least one new pipeline a long time ago. Everyone actually negatively affected would have been compensated, and oil would be flowing to tidewater at the world price.
Instead, we have no new pipelines, and are trying to clean up the mess.
It's no wonder Canada Post is going under, almost entirely the fault of the union.
Canada Post is clinging to an obsolete business model.
When the Liberals restored home delivery over centralized group mailboxes it was a dumb move. It could have allowed Canada Post to reduce employee count, and probably reduce work place injuries and hours worked for their carriers.
In terms of the sorting plants, they really should be looking at the automation models with Private Sector Courier companies in their sorting systems, again it would have reduced head count and probably reduced injuries, especially by workers doing repetitive tasks or even heavy lifting.
As it stands this rotating strike is a gong show on both sides, I will never say that Canada Post negotiates fairly, this happens every time it seems and they pray for back to work legislation to be enacted, but at the same time, the Union is guilty of holding mail delivery and package delivery hostage.
I think that this situation happening right now is going to really hurt Canada Post. Most of the companies that are desperate right now to get packages delivered are looking at private options, and you can bet that those private companies are going to aggressively pursue that business, and once those companies leave Canada Posts services, they won't be coming back.
I rarely get any legitimate mail any more, I'm mostly electronic when it comes to the government or for things like Bills, for the most part, I get a bunch of flyers (The most inefficient marketing concept now) and those go straight to my recycling bin. I get electronic notifications from the shops that I go to like Safeways or Best Buy etc.
I just think that at some point, you could either make Canada Post find a niche in electronic distribution of essential mail, or you sell it off and privatize mail delivery since either way there's a chance for work disruption, but the costs might be more inline privately.
Canada Post is probably going to die because its a dinosaur.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
Canada Post is clinging to an obsolete business model.
When the Liberals restored home delivery over centralized group mailboxes it was a dumb move. It could have allowed Canada Post to reduce employee count, and probably reduce work place injuries and hours worked for their carriers.
In terms of the sorting plants, they really should be looking at the automation models with Private Sector Courier companies in their sorting systems, again it would have reduced head count and probably reduced injuries, especially by workers doing repetitive tasks or even heavy lifting.
As it stands this rotating strike is a gong show on both sides, I will never say that Canada Post negotiates fairly, this happens every time it seems and they pray for back to work legislation to be enacted, but at the same time, the Union is guilty of holding mail delivery and package delivery hostage.
I think that this situation happening right now is going to really hurt Canada Post. Most of the companies that are desperate right now to get packages delivered are looking at private options, and you can bet that those private companies are going to aggressively pursue that business, and once those companies leave Canada Posts services, they won't be coming back.
I rarely get any legitimate mail any more, I'm mostly electronic when it comes to the government or for things like Bills, for the most part, I get a bunch of flyers (The most inefficient marketing concept now) and those go straight to my recycling bin. I get electronic notifications from the shops that I go to like Safeways or Best Buy etc.
I just think that at some point, you could either make Canada Post find a niche in electronic distribution of essential mail, or you sell it off and privatize mail delivery since either way there's a chance for work disruption, but the costs might be more inline privately.
Canada Post is probably going to die because its a dinosaur.
Wasn't this one of the contentious issues either the last strike or the one before?
I've been to the main sorting plant. 10 years ago it was full of manual sorting cases, today it is more than half full of sorting machinery. I think that has to do mainly with their transition to packages and away from traditional letter mail. Of course that is their own fault also, everytime there was a strike or lockout they lost a bunch of lettermail business that never comes back.
That's really the entire point. Any private business that is forced to pay these outrageous union demands will go under.
In the public sector, the unions openly bleed taxpayers dry. But they don't really care about the sustainability of government, there's no competition, and as long as their members are better off than the general public, they really don't care about the long term. Taxdollars going towards bloated salaries and pensions that should be building schools, roads and hospitals makes absolutely no sense in the current environment. Public sector unions need to be reigned in, and the UCP has some great ideas on how to remove their influence. That's why you're seeing the panicked public unions use so much of their forced union dues for political advertising lately.
This is a bunch of baloney. The unions are doing their best to fairly represent their members, but they also do understand the long view and are by far not bleeding anyone dry. They have taken concessions and had long amounts of time between even cost of living raises during the boom times.
You want to see bloated salaries? Look higher up the food chain than the AUPE employees, it's management and Crown Corps like the AER where the real good salaries lie. Your 10% figure comes from a Fraser Institute report that is inherently flawed because it uses a small sample gleaned from the Labour Survey which has an inherent sampling error which they never account for, as well as counting all levels of public servants in one pot, federally, provincial, local and all crown corps.
I get you are pissed off, but you are just making baseless, uninformed accusations about a lot of good people based on your slanted, neo-liberal viewpoint. These people care about Alberta and Albertans as much as anyone, and while you and them view how to best help Alberta may be different, this is just a classless way to express it.
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@PR_NHL
The @NHLFlames are the first team to feature four players each with 50+ points within their first 45 games of a season since the Penguins in 1995-96 (Ron Francis, Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Sandstrom).
Fuzz - "He didn't speak to the media before the election, either."
The unions are taking wage freezes because there would be no public support for them to get higher wages. If unions aren’t maximizing wages and benefits for their members they are not doing their job.
A public sector union works directly against the average taxpayers interest who want qualified people and reasonable turnover levels at the lowest wage possible.
The AER is not a union gig and is funded by industry.
I’m aware. I’m also aware that they are counted as an arms length government Corp and counted as a public job, not a private one. Their salaries, even though paid directly through levies, affect the aforementioned “10% public service pay premium” even though they are neither taxpayer funded or unionized.
So my question is, why is it ok to let someone with the same skills and experience make more because it is industry funded than if that same person worked for the government.
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@PR_NHL
The @NHLFlames are the first team to feature four players each with 50+ points within their first 45 games of a season since the Penguins in 1995-96 (Ron Francis, Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Sandstrom).
Fuzz - "He didn't speak to the media before the election, either."
I’m aware. I’m also aware that they are counted as an arms length government Corp and counted as a public job, not a private one. Their salaries, even though paid directly through levies, affect the aforementioned “10% public service pay premium” even though they are neither taxpayer funded or unionized.
So my question is, why is it ok to let someone with the same skills and experience make more because it is industry funded than if that same person worked for the government.
Wages should be set at the lowest possible rate that allows the position to be filled with a qualified person at an acceptable level of turnover.
Wages should be set at the lowest possible rate that allows the position to be filled with a qualified person at an acceptable level of turnover.
What point are you trying to advance here?
That the employee has a right to demand a wage that they feel is fair for their qualification, regardless if they work in the private or public sector. The general argument is that the unions are inflating wages beyond what they are qualified for. I disagree, the wages are fair and the lowest rate for the work performed by union members and they are not “bleeding the government dry”. Every corporation has that same goal for employee wages, and yet for some reason the general feel of the discussion is that because they are tax funded they don’t deserve the same rights as private employees to get a fair wage and should accept less simply because they are in the public service.
__________________
@PR_NHL
The @NHLFlames are the first team to feature four players each with 50+ points within their first 45 games of a season since the Penguins in 1995-96 (Ron Francis, Mario Lemieux, Jaromir Jagr, Tomas Sandstrom).
Fuzz - "He didn't speak to the media before the election, either."
I can't wait until Canada Post goes away and we can let leaders of private enterprise like Purolator, UPS, DHL, Loomis and IntelCom service all of our delivery needs.
Simply put even my 86 year old dad, and 84 year old mom are receiving all of their crucial critical mail electronically. That age group should be the key demographic for Canada Post mail delivery, but even that is fading.
Private courier companies are going to slash prices to take away the courier business from Canada Post.
Is there really a need for door to door delivery (no)
Is there a business model that really works except for being a over glorified tree killing flyer distribution company (No)
I don't really see the value for Canada Post, especially if private companies and retail companies move to other courier companies.
Sell it off.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
That the employee has a right to demand a wage that they feel is fair for their qualification, regardless if they work in the private or public sector. The general argument is that the unions are inflating wages beyond what they are qualified for. I disagree, the wages are fair and the lowest rate for the work performed by union members and they are not “bleeding the government dry”. Every corporation has that same goal for employee wages, and yet for some reason the general feel of the discussion is that because they are tax funded they don’t deserve the same rights as private employees to get a fair wage and should accept less simply because they are in the public service.
Unions are definitely infately inflating wages vs non-union workers in both public and private sectors. It’s kind of the point. Whether it’s beyond what they are qualified for really goes back to if they have trouble filling positions. Today they don’t so no wage increases should be given.
While they deserve the same rights as private employees the general public should not support them and we should think they should accept less wages. That’s the only logical position as the owner of the company. When a union strikes against a corporation it’s the shareholders of the corporation vs the workers. Why should a public strike be any different.
The public should never support strike action it’s against their best interest.
Simply put even my 86 year old dad, and 84 year old mom are receiving all of their crucial critical mail electronically. That age group should be the key demographic for Canada Post mail delivery, but even that is fading.
Private courier companies are going to slash prices to take away the courier business from Canada Post.
Is there really a need for door to door delivery (no)
Is there a business model that really works except for being a over glorified tree killing flyer distribution company (No)
I don't really see the value for Canada Post, especially if private companies and retail companies move to other courier companies.
Sell it off.
You have obviously never had to deal with the private couriers
Sure I have, and I've never ever had a problem with them.
If you never driven to the airport only to have UPS unable to find the package that they were supposed to leave on your doorstep on one of the 3 delivery attempts you are pretty lucky
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If you never driven to the airport only to have UPS unable to find the package that they were supposed to leave on your doorstep on one of the 3 delivery attempts you are pretty lucky
Then guess I'm lucky. I've never had a problem with lost packages. When I've missed delivery and had to go and get it, I've never run into lost packages.
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My name is Ozymandias, King of Kings;
I can't wait until Canada Post goes away and we can let leaders of private enterprise like Purolator, UPS, DHL, Loomis and IntelCom service all of our delivery needs.
