General Ongoing Coyotes saga thread

[angrysoutherner]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

The funny thing is that all those reasons you mentioned are exactly why the NHL needs to continue to support Coyotes and fight to keep them in Phoenix.

To paraphrase you:

• Phoenix has not been competitive.
• Phoenix is not a natural hockey market, therefore people are less likely to support a losing franchise.
• The economy in southern states like Arizona has still not recovered from the sub-prime mortage situation.
• The poor economic situation further cripples the Coyotes financially because corporate sponsors.

However, I propose that because Phoenix is not a natural hockey market, you have to allow adequate time for Phoenix to become a hockey market.

Since hockey just came to Phoenix 16 years ago, kids that have grown up going to games there whole lives are only in high school. I would suspect, admittedly without looking at any studies, that it would take at roughly 20-25 years to cultivate a hockey market where there was none before.

Obviously that timetable could significantly increase with a winning franchise, but as you have noted, Phoenix has never been a winning franchise.

When combined with the extenuating circumstances of the economic downturn, it makes perfect sense that now is not the time for the NHL to cut and run from Phoenix.

I still dont understand why they have to fight so hard to keep a team there that has not succeeded. Glendale has to fork out extra money to support the team which means they will either increase taxes or allocate existing tax dollars from one source to pay for the Yotes.

I am not against the yotes staying in Phoenix I could care less to be honest, but if they cant sustain there wihtout the help of the nhl and John Q tax payer has to pay more taxes or receive less benifit because his tax money is going to the yoets why keep them there?

I dont see the harm in them going to quebec, Markham or Hamilton. I know some of the Yotes fans do not want them to leave and I understand that, but if they do want them to stay then they have to open up their wallets during the regular season as well.

I try not to share my opinion too much on here but if the yotes cant float their own boat maybe they are better off in another city for both the nhl and for the people of AZ as a collective whole.

[JerryUnderscore]

Originally Posted by angrysoutherner

I still dont understand why they have to fight so hard to keep a team there that has not succeeded. Glendale has to fork out extra money to support the team which means they will either increase taxes or allocate existing tax dollars from one source to pay for the Yotes.

I am not against the yotes staying in Phoenix I could care less to be honest, but if they cant sustain there wihtout the help of the nhl and John Q tax payer has to pay more taxes or receive less benifit because his tax money is going to the yoets why keep them there?

I dont see the harm in them going to quebec, Markham or Hamilton. I know some of the Yotes fans do not want them to leave and I understand that, but if they do want them to stay then they have to open up their wallets during the regular season as well.

I try not to share my opinion too much on here but if the yotes cant float their own boat maybe they are better off in another city for both the nhl and for the people of AZ as a collective whole.

I think the difference is that you're assuming the NHL will continue having to bail out the Coyotes seemingly forever.

I'm suggesting that between a stable ownership group and a winning franchise, the Coyotes could potentially be a very profitable franchise soon.

If that's the case, why move them?

[angrysoutherner]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

I think the difference is that you're assuming the NHL will continue having to bail out the Coyotes seemingly forever.

I'm suggesting that between a stable ownership group and a winning franchise, the Coyotes could potentially be a very profitable franchise soon.

If that's the case, why move them?

My friend I agree, if the they sustain themselves at not cost to the taxpayers who dont care for hockey, then why not!!!!

[Jordan!]

I hear there will be a vote held soon on the preliminary budget, which includes the $17 million arena management fee.

[troutman]

Arena management questions remain


http://www.glendalestar.com/news/hea...9bb2963f4.html

This article summarizes the mayor's comments at the last council meeting.

“All this talk the $25 million has dropped to $20 million, that has dropped to $17 million; I’ve never seen anything in writing,” Scruggs said. “Maybe some of my colleagues have. There is no deal in writing. We’ll see what comes along, maybe it will be something that I can support, but at this point, I can’t support something I haven’t seen.”

Scruggs went on to say she supports the team, just not the proposed deal.

“I love the Coyotes. It’s breaking my heart what’s going on right now. I hope they keep winning and Tippett must be one of the best coaches in the world, but my position as mayor is to keep this city in good condition and leaving us with $4 million dollars in our bank account for a city this size; that just won’t work,” Scruggs said. “I believe that we can fill that arena with other types of activities that do not require us to pay investors, so they have a return on their money.”


How can they vote on something that has not been presented to them (yet)?

[Jordan!]

NHL and Jamison to finalize documents

http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/n...h.html?ana=twt

[Vulcan]

Everybody is always bringing up the poor economic situation as one of the problems in Phoenix but their unemployment rate is at 7.5% which is below the national average of 8.1% and is 18th best for cities over a million people. This is better than such cities as Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, New York, Atlanta, Tampa, Detroit, LA etc. You don't hear these cities or franchises complaining they can't afford tickets. Fans in Phoenix should have some disposable income.

Yeah property values have been torched but if you have a job, this is the time to make hay.

http://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laulrgma.htm

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Everybody is always bringing up the poor economic situation as one of the problems in Phoenix but their unemployment rate is at 7.5% which is below the national average of 8.1% and is 18th best for cities over a million people. This is better than such cities as Seattle, Portland, Philadelphia, New York, Atlanta, Tampa, Detroit, LA etc. You don't hear these cities or franchises complaining they can't afford tickets. Fans in Phoenix should have some disposable income.

Yeah property values have been torched but if you have a job, this is the time to make hay.

http://www.bls.gov/web/metro/laulrgma.htm

The over looked part is Phoenix's declining population of the working class, when the real estate bubble burst thousands of construction jobs were lost and forced even more thousands(familys) of people to leave town. The people moving into Phoenix are either retired or just plain rich taking advantage of cheap awesome real estate.

Plain numbers don't always tell the true story.

[Vulcan]

Originally Posted by T@T

The over looked part is Phoenix's declining population of the working class, when the real estate bubble burst thousands of construction jobs were lost and forced even more thousands(familys) of people to leave town. The people moving into Phoenix are either retired or just plain rich taking advantage of cheap awesome real estate.

Plain numbers don't always tell the true story.

Yeah sure, people have left Phoenix. My cousin who had a carpentery finishing business has moved back to Canada but my nephew recently moved down there. He's got a electronics degree from BCIT and finds work in cable or as a linesman, has done well enough to buy a home whereas he couldn't in Vancouver. Things change but there are some opportunities in Phoenix.

I'm pointing out that in a city of 5M there should be enough to afford tickets.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah sure, people have left Phoenix. My cousin who had a carpentery finishing business has moved back to Canada but my nephew recently moved down there. He's got a electronics degree from BCIT and finds work in cable or as a linesman, has done well enough to buy a home whereas he couldn't in Vancouver. Things change but there are some opportunities in Phoenix.

I'm pointing out that in a city of 5M there should be enough to afford tickets.

I agree and it might happen someday but Glendale is off the beatin track for travel and it's hard to support a team threating to move every year.

Tough situation but with a better economy and a non-threat to move I can see fans supporting that team, better than a couple others anyway.

[troutman]

Embarrassment never ends for City of Glendale

Cardinals parking issue is latest headache

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...-glendale.html

We all want to believe in Glendale's ability to solve these problems. For hockey fans, that means successfully hammering out a lease agreement with Greg Jamison and his group of investors, even though the Goldwater Institute will scrutinize every penny allocated to new ownership for "arena management fees."

For all the optimism, the final hurdle won't be easy: An investor who has seen the numbers says the Coyotes lose $40 million a year. They recoup $1 million for every home playoff game. Even if they win the Stanley Cup with the maximum amount of home games, they'll recoup only $16 million.

We're all hoping that the math is different this time around. But let's be real: The numbers haven't changed, and it will surely require some form of short-term handout to keep this team in Arizona. Hopefully, dissenters will focus on the long-term good of keeping the team, and growing the fan base, not the prohibitive costs.

Glendale lays off 49 employees to balance $35 mil budget gap

http://www.azcentral.com/community/g...udget-gap.html

[JerryUnderscore]

I would imagine that Jamison isn't going into this thinking he can make some quick, easy money. He probably knows it will take a few years for this franchise to turn around and become profitable again.

[PegCityFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by JerryUnderscore

I would imagine that Jamison isn't going into this thinking he can make some quick, easy money. He probably knows it will take a few years for this franchise to turn around and become profitable again.

Kind of hard too when you get free tickets with a case of beer. What's the motivation to pay for them now?

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Yeah sure, people have left Phoenix. My cousin who had a carpentery finishing business has moved back to Canada but my nephew recently moved down there. He's got a electronics degree from BCIT and finds work in cable or as a linesman, has done well enough to buy a home whereas he couldn't in Vancouver. Things change but there are some opportunities in Phoenix.

I'm pointing out that in a city of 5M there should be enough to afford tickets.

I think we as hockey fans assume that the US aught to embrace hockey at least to the degree that their northern cities do, unfortunatly I do not think this will happen, I tend to think of cricket as the example, a city of 5 million with great weather and a history of playing and enjoying baseball should be able to support a cricket team, aint ever going to happen though.

[Notorious Honey Badger]

^^cricket probably gets better ratings in phoenix right now

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by Notorious Honey Badger

^^cricket probably gets better ratings in phoenix right now

The sport? Or actual crickets?

Actually either way works, really.

[VladtheImpaler]

The FAN is talking about Jim Treliving (sp?) pulling out of the deal, and that there is no owner... I wasn't listening closely at all - does this mean that the sale is falling apart?

[troutman]

Jim Treliving ‏@JTreliving There is a Rumor I am buying the Phoenix Coyotes. I am not as it has been purchased by Greg Jamison I am not buying the team. End of story

Bob McCown was suggesting earlier today that Treliving was going to buy Coytoes, with a four year out-clause.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by troutman

Jim Treliving ‏@JTreliving There is a Rumor I am buying the Phoenix Coyotes. I am not as it has been purchased by Greg Jamison I am not buying the team. End of story

Bob McCown was suggesting earlier today that Treliving was going to buy Coytoes, with a four year out-clause.

Ah, so he is not part of Jamieson's group?

[Jordan!]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

The FAN is talking about Jim Treliving (sp?) pulling out of the deal, and that there is no owner... I wasn't listening closely at all - does this mean that the sale is falling apart?

Bob McCown has been making things up forever.. even if it were true what he was saying.. the league has a minimum 7 year no-move clause for new owners