'Intactivists' to San Francisco: Ban circumcision

[Thor]

Id love to see some statistics on western nations on this practice, hell even Asian nations. My guess is the US is near the top, while Canada would be near the middle of the pack.

[tete]

Originally Posted by Calgaryborn

As a christian I was under no religious compulsion to have my boys circumcised but, I chose to for two reasons. Firstly, I was circumcised back in the day and I wanted my boys to look the same. That was by far my main reason. The second was that my brother wasn't circumcised as an infant and later had to be done because of an infection that made it painful for him to pee. He went through a lot at age 9 or 10.

First disclosure, I'm a girl. Okay, I can understand concern over infections and the potential to have to circumcise as an teen/adult -the pain would be intense. But I don't get the first reason - do dads and their sons routinely get together and check out each other's junk? Is there a ritual "whipping out the penis" comparison between father and son that us girls just don't know about? I have no clue what my mom's ###ayjay looks like and I"m a-okay with that. Is there severe trauma related to a son finding out he's not the "same" as his dad?

[Thor]

I have never understood why circumcision is a common practice in North America today (though I’m a woman; what do I know?) From what I gather, apart from religious reasons or making the penis look “prettier” there really doesn’t seem to be ANY good reason for it.
My husband and I decided to not circumcise our son, and for a good reason! There are a lot of myths about the benefits of circumcision and there are a lot of health risks involved in the procedure. Topping our list of why we said “no” to circumcision is:

If you’re born with it, it’s meant to be there

The foreskin on a penis isn’t some sort of optional part that was put there for fun – it actually has an important function! Babies need foreskin to protect the “glans” (the part of the penis that is in the foreskin) from bacteria and infections – like the kind of infections that can be caused by a diaper full of pee and poop.

It hurts your baby

Don’t be fooled; those who tell you your baby will not remember the pain you made him suffer through or isn’t old enough to even know what pain is are pleading ignorance. How would you like to be strapped to a board and have a chunk of skin lobbed off with a tool similar to a cigar cutter? The anesthetic used to numb the area is unsafe for your baby. Because of this, it is given in a reduced quantity (so it isn’t really doing a fantastic job when numbing) and it wears off rather quickly. Let’s see… open wound rubbing on a diaper 24 hours a day. Doesn’t sound very pleasant to me.

No one approves of circumcision

It’s true: no medical institution in the world thinks that circumcision is a good idea. Babies actually can die during the process (about 18 out of 100,000)

You are taking away your son’s rights

Your son didn’t ask for you to remove a vital part of his body. Parents make the decision to put their child through this unnecessary pain without even consulting the patient If my son wants to circumcise himself when he’s old enough, then that’s his choice; not mine.

It’s a traumatic event

I was surprised to find out that circumcision can affect breastfeeding, sleep, and even maternal bonding. Studies have also indicated that men who are circumcised have a lower pain threshold and suffer from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder symptoms.

Circumcision is SO passé

As we move further and further away from the 1970s, the circumcision rates continue to move on a steady decline. Even those of the Jewish faith are performing circumcision alternatives so that their child is not actually cut (referred to as the “Brit Shalom”).

Circumcision is a big business

Did you know that every single State could save up to $1 million a year if they did not fund these unnecessary circumcisions? Several States and insurance companies have ceased funding this practice.

What about urinary tract infections (UTIs)?

There are some unfounded rumors out there stating that uncircumcised boys suffer from UTIs, but that simply is not true. If your son does happen to have a UTI, antibiotics, breastfeeding and proper cleaning work wonders for curing and preventing it.

It’s not a cancer preventative

Out of all men who suffer from a penile cancer, those with an uncircumcised penis only showed a 0.2% increased risk. Circumcision is not the answer for treating genital cancers, though not smoking and having protected sex is.

It won’t necessarily reduce the risk of AIDS

Yes, there have been studies performed in Africa which correlate circumcision with the reduced contraction of AIDS. However, these studies have not yielded the same results in the United States. Safe sex and cleanliness are more effective measures in keeping yourself free from sexual transmitted diseases.

It IS easy to clean

The foreskin is there naturally and has a self-cleaning “mechanism”, much like a female’s vagina does. You should not retract the skin (especially infants and children) until it is easily retractable. All children need is a good warm bath to keep it clean.

Father knows best?

This is one of the most ridiculous arguments I’ve heard – “I needed to circumcise my son so he looks like his father!” Right. And should mom grow a penis so that she looks like her son too? Take this as an opportunity to explain how everyone’s body is different, unique and beautiful.

http://www.naturalfamilyonline.com/g...o-circumcision

[red '00]

Originally Posted by Thor

Id love to see some statistics on western nations on this practice, hell even Asian nations. My guess is the US is near the top, while Canada would be near the middle of the pack.

Taking a quick look at wikipedia...

African nations seem to do it quite a bit. Likely has something to do with the AIDS thing. Seems on average between 50-80%, in some cases over 90%. Few exceptions there, though. Rwanda for example is 10%.

South America is really low. Seems most countries circumcise under 10% of newborns. Mexico is between 10%-30%. Lot's 'o foreskin down there.

The States is high... Says from 1999-2002 79% were snipped. 1970s 91%, 1980s 83%. Currently between 65-70%.

Asia, including Russia is apparently less than 20% with a few exceptions. Korea seems to love circumcision. I guess China and Japan fewer than 1%. But there are huge populations there.

Pretty much all of Europe is less than 20%. Places like Sweden for example, it's actually illegal to circumcise unless medically needed.

The middle east is extremely high. Religious reasons, clearly. Over 80% in a lot of places.

NZ and Australia are generally 20% or less, though in some areas it spikes to 50-50.

As for us Canadians seems to be around 31% of newborns are circumcised. Alberta and Ontario have the highest rates, around 40%. Nova Scotia and Nunavut the lowest, less than 10%. Quebec is low too, at 12%.

World wide, it says about 30% of males are circumcised.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Hanni

So if doctors don't recommend it then it is an unnecessary procedure, so if you have no religious motivation you're doing it for vain reasons.

It's not like religious reasons are good reasons, either. If teachings from a few thousand years ago are telling you to lop off the tip of your baby's noodle you should probably look for some more current research.

[Hanni]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It's not like religious reasons are good reasons, either. If teachings from a few thousand years ago are telling you to lop off the tip of your baby's noodle you should probably look for some more current research.

I completely agree, I was simply implying at least a religious reason is better than any of the vain ones. I didn't want to turn this into a religious debate.

[The Goon]

Originally Posted by tete

First disclosure, I'm a girl. Okay, I can understand concern over infections and the potential to have to circumcise as an teen/adult -the pain would be intense. But I don't get the first reason - do dads and their sons routinely get together and check out each other's junk? Is there a ritual "whipping out the penis" comparison between father and son that us girls just don't know about? I have no clue what my mom's ###ayjay looks like and I"m a-okay with that. Is there severe trauma related to a son finding out he's not the "same" as his dad?

Are you implying that I should stop showering with my dad?

(I agree, that is a weird reason.)

[evman150]

I wonder if amputees ever have their sons' arms or legs cut off so they'll look "just like dad".

Prevents arm and leg cancer too. And lots of infections. Having only one leg will probably make you last longer in bed as well I'd imagine.

[Pinner]

One major reason for circumcision has not been addressed yet, girls just love smoking a cut wiener

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by The Goon

Are you implying that I should stop showering with my dad?

(I agree, that is a weird reason.)

I hope not. I don't think any of us should have to stop showering with your dad.

[Cain]

Originally Posted by Pinner

One major reason for circumcision has not been addressed yet, girls just love smoking a cut wiener

And I love girls with big boobs, but I don't see them giving breast implants to newborn females to ensure that they are as endowed as I like when they grow up.

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by GGG

What is the current rate of adult circumcision?



its almost zero of course. So if men aren't choosing to cut themselves to gain all of these benefits then why should we do it to babies.

No adult would ever choose to cut his forskin off for ceremonial reasons. We shouldn't push it on kids either. At least Health canada doesn't pay for it.

I am no expert in adult circumcision, but I know it still happens. I happen to know of two at my office that had them done for non religious reasons. I have no idea why I even know that, but whatever!

[Pinner]

I like the argument that somehow the babies rights are violated, like babies get to make decisions....?

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

I am no expert in adult circumcision, but I know it still happens. I happen to know of two at my office

I'm sure you do J/K

[Nage Waza]

Originally Posted by Hanni

This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard, you can't seriously be claiming that every study has some secret Jew hating bias, this isn't 1930's Germany.

Unfortunately, there is literature that ties together the fight against circumcision with anti-Semitism. Not that I think it's taking place in this thread, but there are communities in other countries where this is certainly what is taking place.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Pinner

One major reason for circumcision has not been addressed yet, girls just love smoking a cut wiener

You do realize an erect penis on an uncircumcised dude looks the same as one that is circumscribed?

We just have hats to protect our jimmy when he's not at play.

[Pinner]

I recognize and appreciate, the pleasantly, relieved look of a horny woman.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Mike F

Not sure if you read the whole thing, but here's the conclusion:

I.e. the conclusion of the study wasn't that circumcision should not be performed, but that doctors shouldn't be recommending it as a routine procedure -- it should be left to parents to weigh the costs and benefits.

Originally Posted by Hanni

So if doctors don't recommend it then it is an unnecessary procedure, so if you have no religious motivation you're doing it for vain reasons.

No, it could very well mean that you've decided that the potential benefits (lower chance of HIV or STDs) are of more importance to you than the potential costs are deterrents (short term pain, greater chance of UTI).

There's a big difference between a doctor saying that it isn't something they would actively advocate be done routinely (i.e. the results of this study) and a doctor saying it's something they would advocate not be done (possibly the opinion previously, but not one supported by this study). Yes, it's elective, but not medically necessary doesn't equal wrong.

Any time you have a procedure where the costs and benefits are very closely balanced, a organization like the Canadian Pediatric Society will resist giving it a recommendation that it be routinely done; it's the only logical thing to do. But that doesn't mean parents are wrong to weigh the costs and benefits themselves or that those who elect for the procedure are stupid or vain.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by Nage Waza

Unfortunately, there is literature that ties together the fight against circumcision with anti-Semitism. Not that I think it's taking place in this thread, but there are communities in other countries where this is certainly what is taking place.

This literature that proves anti-semitism is clearly anti-WASP.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by simmonjam1

If it wasn't for circumcision, I would be blind today.

I was born without eyelids. My foreskin was used as 'transplanted' eyelids at birth. So in a sense you can say I'm cockeyed.

Gold post.

Thats sig material, mind if I use it?