Visiting India

[moon]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

Just telling them to stay away from one

Btw, I did make a contribution to the thread since you only see/think what your little brain wants to see/think. (Read what I wrote before warning posters)

Oh I forgot what ever would we have done without your brilliant Ganges report?

[ClubFlames]

Originally Posted by moon

Oh I forgot what ever would we have done without your brilliant Ganges report?

We can certainly do without your expertise on India, its people and their food, so basically everything associated with India.

[BloodFetish]

Originally Posted by ClubFlames

We can certainly do without your expertise on India, its people and their food, so basically everything associated with India.

You may not appreciate his point of view, but he IS entitled to it. Respectfully suggest you add him to your ignore list and move on.

EDIT: Oh, and on topic - I wouldn't rule India out totally but I'm definitely giving the banks of the Ganges river a pass, and packing toilet paper everywhere else!

[Phanuthier]

Some of these posts here are hilarious. Western World, meet the rest of the world, you can see it in any China and now India thread.

I'm sure its dirty, I'm sure its crowded, I'm sure its a cultural shock, but thats exactly why India is #1 on my list of where I want to go. I want to see something different and unique, not go see the Eiffel Tower and find out its exactly how I imagined it to be. i don't want to go to Europe and see a displaced USA/Canada culture with a different background. I want to experience culture. I have a lot of Indian friends (working in tech, many still FOB) and I'm told by all of them you could spend a lifetime travelling India and not be able to see everything. I have trips planned out to see North India, South India, the Himalayas all on separate trips. Sucks I only get 3 weeks vacation now that I'm working.

Tons of tons of stuff to see and learn.

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by fotze

Oh my god, the dude with his guts sitting on top of his belly and the birds eating them.

I also found that picture pretty disturbing, one of those "once it's been seen" pictures. The dogs chewing on the rotten corpses, and the thought of those people "washing" and brushing their teeth in that filth is unimaginable to me.

A few posters have tried to explain away the disgusting conditions saying how poor the country is.

Garbage, feces, corpses in the streets, and unbelievable filth is not caused by poverty, it's caused by a lack of caring.

There are plenty of poor counties in the world, whose citizens don't live like animals.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Pinner

Garbage, feces, corpses in the streets, and unbelievable filth is not caused by poverty, it's caused by a lack of caring.

There are plenty of poor counties in the world, whose citizens don't live like animals.

Name them. They "care" as much as anyone else in the world. Its a mix of poverty and a huge population. If you have 1% of the people that live like slobs, thats 10 million people who live like slobs in India. In Canada, 1% of 33 million is 330,000 people - and we'll say half of those is Edmonton and the other half Vancouver .

Its pictures like this that make me want to see India/China grow economically, as the USA/Canada doesn't need more 1.3 cars per person, BMW's, 2200 sq ft houses and big screen TV's. We are filthy and disgusting in our own ways, but we have such a small population and such a large amount of land that it doesn't look as bad. Its easy for the western world to look down on those Asian and African countries, while people throw paper and pop cans in the garbage rather then recycle, throw a cigarette butt on the ground and so on... then go drive our BMW's and critisize those countries for being poor living standards, when you could drive a slightly less expensive car and donate more to 3rd world charities.

[Sliver]

It is unbelievably disgusting they are washing themselves and drinking from the water that has corpses in it, not to mention it's disgusting there are corpses in there in the first place.

I don't think it's fair to say that's western hypocricy/eurocentrism/etc. talking there...that is objectively vile. I'm not going to extrapolate from that to say all of India is disgusting, but you guys are off your rockers if you're defending what is happening in that river.

I would think India could afford to enforce a policy to at least prevent people from throwing their dead in the river and clean up the dead bodies that are in the river. You would think they could also make some bath houses along the banks with some semblance of sanitation for people to wash themselves in.

Maybe they can't afford to do any of that or they have bigger fish to fry - that still doesn't make this any less nasty.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It is unbelievably disgusting they are washing themselves and drinking from the water that has corpses in it, not to mention it's disgusting there are corpses in there in the first place.

I don't think it's fair to say that's western hypocricy/eurocentrism/etc. talking there...that is objectively vile. I'm not going to extrapolate from that to say all of India is disgusting, but you guys are off your rockers if you're defending what is happening in that river.

I would think India could afford to enforce a policy to at least prevent people from throwing their dead in the river and clean up the dead bodies that are in the river. You would think they could also make some bath houses along the banks with some semblance of sanitation for people to wash themselves in.

Maybe they can't afford to do any of that or they have bigger fish to fry - that still doesn't make this any less nasty.

It is one of many issues (as far as I know). Sanitation is just the most visual. I'm told that the power grid will go out for a few hours every day because its so overloaded. Running water is dirty. Education isn't great with lots of disparity. Lots and lots of issues, fix one issue and another one pops up. There are hundreads of big cities in India that need to be "fixed" and I'm told the government is filled with corruption.

Thats not to say all hope is lost. India's economy is growing and skills in the workforce are improving. In the Industrial Revolution, the USA sacked their environment and at times lives in a filthy infestation to grow their economy; once things improved, the USA upped their standards. China is somewhere in between right now. India looks to be a few years behind China, but hopefully they'll get there.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Sliver

It is unbelievably disgusting they are washing themselves and drinking from the water that has corpses in it, not to mention it's disgusting there are corpses in there in the first place.

I don't think it's fair to say that's western hypocricy/eurocentrism/etc. talking there...that is objectively vile. I'm not going to extrapolate from that to say all of India is disgusting, but you guys are off your rockers if you're defending what is happening in that river.

From a sanitation perspective how is a human body any different than any other dead animal floating down the river other than size? Do you not think that some rivers in Canada have dead animals floating down them from time to time?

[Pinner]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

From a sanitation perspective how is a human body any different than any other dead animal floating down the river other than size? Do you not think that some rivers in Canada have dead animals floating down them from time to time?

Nearly the same thing, almost

[Bigtime]

The problem with the Ganges river in Varanasi is that it is the most holy place to have your body cremated or if you can't afford it thrown into the river. It is a very deep seeded spiritual belief that goes back hundreds (if not thousands) of years.

For the record, when I was there I never once saw the floating/rotting/dogs eating human corpses. Yes it was filthy, dirty, disgusting, and totally jarring to my senses, but I only saw the bodies being burnt by the riverside at the burning ghats.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

From a sanitation perspective how is a human body any different than any other dead animal floating down the river other than size? Do you not think that some rivers in Canada have dead animals floating down them from time to time?

Excellent comparison. Tell me. How many dead Elk, Deer or Bear have you seen float down the Bow? How many people do you see bath in the Bow?

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

It is one of many issues (as far as I know). Sanitation is just the most visual. I'm told that the power grid will go out for a few hours every day because its so overloaded. Running water is dirty. Education isn't great with lots of disparity. Lots and lots of issues, fix one issue and another one pops up. There are hundreads of big cities in India that need to be "fixed" and I'm told the government is filled with corruption.

Thats not to say all hope is lost. India's economy is growing and skills in the workforce are improving. In the Industrial Revolution, the USA sacked their environment and at times lives in a filthy infestation to grow their economy; once things improved, the USA upped their standards. China is somewhere in between right now. India looks to be a few years behind China, but hopefully they'll get there.

Exactly. The issues aren't black and white, India is dealing with a massive poplulation, much of it poor, which means much of it uneducated as well. India is still a society that places a huge level of importance on religion, especially in the poorer population. You try to enforce people not being able to lay their dead to rest in the ganges, and you'd probably have a bloody revolution on your hands.

A lot of India is pretty extreme, and can be shocking. And then you can go to other parts of it that are more lavish and magnificent than anything you'd find in North America. It really is a place where the ancient world and the modern world are co-existing right now.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Exactly. The issues aren't black and white, India is dealing with a massive poplulation, much of it poor, which means much of it uneducated as well. India is still a society that places a huge level of importance on religion, especially in the poorer population. You try to enforce people not being able to lay their dead to rest in the ganges, and you'd probably have a bloody revolution on your hands.

Well ontop of that, social infrastructure. Living in Silicon Valley, where it seems 40% of the people are Indian, FOB Indians just don't obey laws the way we do in the Western World. They will do and behave in a life of how they know. Police trying to enforce laws or put up signs for some of this crap is like trying to get security to say no smoking and putting up signs for no smoking in an Ozzy Ozborn concert. Its just not going to happen. You can't just fix one problem, and even if you could magically get all the money to fix all their problems, the non-nonchalant attitudes will just disobey all the laws you try and enforce. In that sense, India seems to be quite far behind China in social infrastructure.

[bugsy]

Man I was just talking to a buddy the other day about the Evil Dead movie themepark. Especially the part where it rains feces and floating rotting dog heads are buring human corpses in the street... or was it floating dog feces that was buring human corpses. Man, either way, that sounded a bit out of my league. Wait... which thread was this again?

[Phanuthier]

I just asked one of my newly emigrated Indian friends at work about the link. He says thats a media overreaction. Its like taking a picture of only homeless people in the downtown, the morning July 1, the Calgary Stampede area at night during the Stampede and saying how dirty Calgary is. Half the pictures were taken a decade ago in a time when there was a revolt and many people died. The bodies were thrown in the Gangis (sp?) which runs from the Himilayas to the Bay of something (Eastern side of India) and throwing bodies into the Gangis is now forbidden and not practiced. Most of these pictures you probably won't see as touriest unless you are going out of your way to look for it.

[JohnnyB]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

I just asked one of my newly emigrated Indian friends at work about the link. He says thats a media overreaction. Its like taking a picture of only homeless people in the downtown, the morning July 1, the Calgary Stampede area at night during the Stampede and saying how dirty Calgary is. Half the pictures were taken a decade ago in a time when there was a revolt and many people died. The bodies were thrown in the Gangis (sp?) which runs from the Himilayas to the Bay of something (Eastern side of India) and throwing bodies into the Gangis is now forbidden and not practiced. Most of these pictures you probably won't see as touriest unless you are going out of your way to look for it.

Hmmm, that's interesting information. I am a big fan of Chinasmack. It's one of my favourite websites for getting cool insights into Chinese society, but it's not like it's a really reliable news source. It basically just takes whatever is popping up on Chinese blogs and translates it into English. It's not a news site with any kind of responsibility for ensuring the accuracy of the stories it takes off Chinese blogs, it is just translating the material for English readers.