RANT: Calgary Minor Hockey

[troutman]

The odd thing about the course is only one parent from each family has to take it. You can bet that the parent that needs to take the course, is not the one doing it.

[VladtheImpaler]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I coached football, and I can tell you that some parents are the worst thing out their for their kids. Especially the ex jock of an old man who tries to recreat his career through his kid.

I've been screamed at and abused by Parents for playing little Johnny more then their little billy. I've been yelled at when we didn't win.

Its not all parents, but in every sport there are bozo's, and if they have to cast a wide net to calm them down or get rid of them, then cast away.

[GrrlGoalie33]

I think this video is a great idea. When my nephews used to play hockey, there was no shortage of the "hockey parent" around.

My sister in law, who thought she wasn't one, would sit in the stands with me and quietly point out the slow kid, the fat kid, the kid who shouldn't have been on the team but his dad was a coach, the kid with the obnoxious parent and on and on. I don't think she ever got the point that she was a "hockey parent" too...

[Northendzone]

^^^ to some extent i'd like to rebuke the theory that some kids are on the team because thier dad is the coach. the blackfoot hockey association puts the kids thru evaluations and the kids are then slotted on teams based on their aggregate scores that they were given in both the 3 on 3 mini-games, and the timed skills sessions. as a parent i was not allowed to be an evaluator in any game involving my son - thus i had no direct input on where he was placed. during each game there were several evaluators so a person would have to do a lot of manipulation to get thier child to land on a certain team - at least using this model. personally i'd be more than annoyed if anyone ever came to me with a suggested rating of a certain player - not would i ever want to be around while my son was being evaluated.

i know that i could never fairly evaluate my son because i expect him to be better than a group of his peers.....

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Northendzone

^^^ to some extent i'd like to rebuke the theory that some kids are on the team because thier dad is the coach. the blackfoot hockey association puts the kids thru evaluations and the kids are then slotted on teams based on their aggregate scores that they were given in both the 3 on 3 mini-games, and the timed skills sessions. as a parent i was not allowed to be an evaluator in any game involving my son - thus i had no direct input on where he was placed. during each game there were several evaluators so a person would have to do a lot of manipulation to get thier child to land on a certain team - at least using this model. personally i'd be more than annoyed if anyone ever came to me with a suggested rating of a certain player - not would i ever want to be around while my son was being evaluated.

i know that i could never fairly evaluate my son because i expect him to be better than a group of his peers.....

I will say that in soccer, its standard practice to have the coach's kid on the coach's team. For instance, I'm coaching a higher tier right now, and a really good player is playing at a lower level because thats where his dad is coaching.

Sometimes they'll place the coach wherever the player is evaluated at, and for really high performance levels they ask for non-parent coaches.

I've coached on a number of the best teams in the city because I'm a rare commodity which is a non-parent coach.

[Angelamc]

Ugh, I knew I was forgetting something this week! Why cant I be given auto pass or something based on 7 years of good behavior? I wish that it could have been formatted so that I didn't have to watch the videos, but just answer questions using common sense.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Locke

I've coached on a number of the best teams in the city because I'm a rare commodity which is a non-parent coach.

Which amuses me because you pretty much have expressed your loathing for anyone prepubescent.


Are you coaching like 16 year olds instead of kids?

[macker]

I think this was well done and I like that everyone has to take it and there is no real way around it. The ones that don't want to take it are the ones that don't want to hear it and likely the reason why this has become mandatory. If everyone could watch it and take away one point it is that 1% of kids make it to the NHL so R-E-L-A-X.....its likely not happening.....let the kids have fun and most parents need to be reminded that regardless of "their investment in their future NHL prospect" most kids just want to make some friends and play some hockey. My experience has taught me that the parents are usually more competitive then the kids up to the level my son has played....which is novice Besides......Lannys on the video.....so "s-t-a-y quiet".....

[HOZ]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I coached football, and I can tell you that some parents are the worst thing out their for their kids. Especially the ex jock of an old man who tries to recreat his career through his kid.

I've been screamed at and abused by Parents for playing little Johnny more then their little billy. I've been yelled at when we didn't win.

Its not all parents, but in every sport there are bozo's, and if they have to cast a wide net to calm them down or get rid of them, then cast away.

WTF!!!!!!! YOU KNOW NOTHING BABOON! Everyone and their donkey knows Billy is better than Johnny!

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

yes, its a vent about Calgary Minor Hockey as per the thread title.

the video is simply an illustration of one of my primary issue, the condecsending attittude towards the parents.

As someone who has knowledge of the program but is not associated with Hockey Calgary, I think your little rant is a little bit off base.

Respect In Sport (RIS) is a program that was developed by Sheldon Kennedy and Wayne McNeil. The program has some core material as its foundation that is common to all sports. The examples and some of the videos are tailored for each organization and/or each sport as appropriate. The material did not originate for hockey or for Hockey Calgary, but has been adopted as a best-in-class practice and endorsed by both Hockey Canada and Hockey Alberta.

http://www.respectinsport.com/

The whole intent of the program is enable the vast majority of 'good parents' to speak up and peer pressure the 'bad parents' to behave. You may not see much of it at the Atom 7 level, but examples of parenting issues are everywhere.

Most programs try to deal with the 1% or 5% of bad eggs. This one deals with the 95-99% of good eggs and seeks to enable them.

Expect to see more of it.

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by Locke

I will say that in soccer, its standard practice to have the coach's kid on the coach's team. For instance, I'm coaching a higher tier right now, and a really good player is playing at a lower level because thats where his dad is coaching.

Sometimes they'll place the coach wherever the player is evaluated at, and for really high performance levels they ask for non-parent coaches.

I've coached on a number of the best teams in the city because I'm a rare commodity which is a non-parent coach.

i would say that the practice is actually more along the lines of i am coaching my kids team versus him being on the team i coach - i know that in blackfoot, they had an instance of a kid being moved up to one of the higher div's and thus leaving the old team without a coach, but they can't hold a kid back because of the fact his dad was interested in being a coach

[sclitheroe]

My boy's gonna play in the Big League
My boy's gonna turn some heads
My boy's gonna play in the Big League
My boy's gonna knock 'em dead
The Big League


How many NHL’ers, I wonder, had the physical gifts and natural talents, but needed their overbearing, hyper-involved, aggressive, verbally abusive parents to provide that final push in dedication, raw hours, ice time, and placement on the right teams to get them to the big show.

My guess is that it’s more than we’d like to think. It’s still a shame, though, since so few kids will make it to the NHL regardless of parent behavior. But I also bet in a surprising number of cases, having “that” parent makes a difference in many circumstances.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

My boy's gonna play in the Big League
My boy's gonna turn some heads
My boy's gonna play in the Big League
My boy's gonna knock 'em dead
The Big League


How many NHL’ers, I wonder, had the physical gifts and natural talents, but needed their overbearing, hyper-involved, aggressive, verbally abusive parents to provide that final push in dedication, raw hours, ice time, and placement on the right teams to get them to the big show.

My guess is that it’s more than we’d like to think. It’s still a shame, though, since so few kids will make it to the NHL regardless of parent behavior. But I also bet in a surprising number of cases, having “that” parent makes a difference in many circumstances.

And how many NHL talents quit the game before ever taking that next step due to their overbearing, hyper-involved, aggressive and verbally abusive parents?

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by valo403

And how many NHL talents quit the game before ever taking that next step due to their overbearing, hyper-involved, aggressive and verbally abusive parents?

I dunno, hence why I asked. The only parent that comes to mind for me as potentially fitting “that” role was Carl Lindros, but Eric was such an immense talent I doubt his dad had much, if any, impact on his career.

The whole reason it interests me is because I was reading the book Outliers, and it talks quite a bit about the subtle effects of things like birth date on the potential for a kid to make it to the pro’s. It also mentioned that parents were willing to forge birth records to assure optimal placement based on cutoff dates. All of this specifically in youth hockey in Canada.

So clearly a parent that is mildly psychotic enough to lie about a kids birthday and forge documents could potentially have a big impact on how a kid fares early on in their career.

If the difference between 99.9% of players and the 0.1% who make it to the NHL is slightly more ice time at a young age, or getting to be on the team that goes to the better tournaments, etc, couldn’t it be “that” kind of parent that provides the slightest edge?

[Dion]

I can remember helping my late father coach AAA Midget hockey. There was this one parent who would always lean over the glass to the players bench and would mouth off about how his son not getting enough playing time and should be on the PP a lot more. One game my father had enough and grabbed this guy by the scruff of the neck and hauled him into the players bench area. Politely told him he was coaching the rest of the game and we left him too it. After the game he apologised saying he didn't realise how difficult coaching was.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by sclitheroe

I dunno, hence why I asked. The only parent that comes to mind for me as potentially fitting “that” role was Carl Lindros, but Eric was such an immense talent I doubt his dad had much, if any, impact on his career.

The whole reason it interests me is because I was reading the book Outliers, and it talks quite a bit about the subtle effects of things like birth date on the potential for a kid to make it to the pro’s. It also mentioned that parents were willing to forge birth records to assure optimal placement based on cutoff dates. All of this specifically in youth hockey in Canada.

So clearly a parent that is mildly psychotic enough to lie about a kids birthday and forge documents could potentially have a big impact on how a kid fares early on in their career.

If the difference between 99.9% of players and the 0.1% who make it to the NHL is slightly more ice time at a young age, or getting to be on the team that goes to the better tournaments, etc, couldn’t it be “that” kind of parent that provides the slightest edge?

I get your point, but you obviously wouldn't have heard of many parents who caused talent players to not reach their potential simply because they quit the game before they ever became known. I know of a few guys I grew up with who were really talented but quit the game at 15 or 16 as it wasn't fun anymore, a common thread seemed to be nut job parents. There's a difference between supporting an elite level athlete who is on the same page in terms of goals and screaming at your 12 year old for not finishing his checks.

[sclitheroe]

Originally Posted by valo403

I get your point, but you obviously wouldn't have heard of many parents who caused talent players to not reach their potential simply because they quit the game before they ever became known. I know of a few guys I grew up with who were really talented but quit the game at 15 or 16 as it wasn't fun anymore, a common thread seemed to be nut job parents. There's a difference between supporting an elite level athlete who is on the same page in terms of goals and screaming at your 12 year old for not finishing his checks.

Good point.

[DementedReality]

so, let me clarify something here:

1) this was a rant and in text, so if it came off as I am edgy about, that is why. its a rant on a message board, but i am not stomping my feet and crying over it offline.
2) it was not a rant about the Respect in Sport video. It was a rant about Hockey Calgary's culture.
A culture
1. where a coach feels its ok to talk down to the parents on the team and tell them when they are allowed to talk to him. i felt like telling him my when I am "open" as well, or is just a one way street? Hey Coach, if you want to talk to me about my kids game, i wont talk to you if its more than 30 minutes before or after a game. seems silly, no?
2. a culture where the Association Insiders act as if they are somehow big wigs in the rink. where the wealthy mom's stick there nose in the air at everyone else. and dont tell me im making it up, i had enough PM's about this experience from others.
3. and finally, where I am already feeling like HC and Association culture is already elitist and condensending, i am forced to watch a video that not only tells me valid points about rink behaviour and respect for coaches, but also proceeds to teach me about childhood behavioural and biological development, like i am too dumb to know how to raise my kid away from the rink.

hey, we all feel the video "wasnt" meant for us, but im telling you all the Association Insiders are glad the peons finally got told whats good for us.

ok .. rant over, i think!

[Northendzone]

Originally Posted by DementedReality

A culture
1. where a coach feels its ok to talk down to the parents on the team and tell them when they are allowed to talk to him. i felt like telling him my when I am "open" as well, or is just a one way street? Hey Coach, if you want to talk to me about my kids game, i wont talk to you if its more than 30 minutes before or after a game. seems silly, no?
2. a culture where the Association Insiders act as if they are somehow big wigs in the rink. where the wealthy mom's stick there nose in the air at everyone else. and dont tell me im making it up, i had enough PM's about this experience from others.

perhaps it is just me, but man you really seem bitter over all this and you are not getting some of the message that HC is trying to convey......

a good coach would not talk down to the parents on the team. you are clearly not getting it about the 24 hour rule - it is meant to protect everyone (coaches and parents) from being exposed to a situation that could escalate - why would you want to expose yourself or your kid to that? If you really want to have a discussion with your childs coach - then it can wait 24 hours.

who cares what these wealthy moms do - if they act elitest at the hockey rink they likely do the same thing at Safeway, the Spa or the mall.....that is who they are.

if you don't like the association insiders, then stay away from them - like it or not, to some extent they are important in the context of making hockey happen for the kids - some of them will be full of themselves, while other will not be - sort of like people in any workplace.

generally speaking a hockey practice starts with some basic skating - some kids really need this to reinforce the fundamentals, while others are already advanced skaters......some parents already got or understood what the video was telling them, while others needed a reminder. at the end of the day the video was 1 hour - think of how many hours you will spend this winter getting to and from the rink, getting skates sharpened, being at the rink.....

[flambers]

Originally Posted by fotze

Here's a related question, do timbits actually play any games? The kids are bored out of their tree except when there is game like drills.

Yes they play games.