Racism? In Canada? Never!

[flamingchina]

Originally posted by JiriHrdina@Mar 23 2005, 04:32 AM
Well. You are the guy stating that claim. Back it up. Show me something that proves that "most" African Americans can't speak proper English. Its a bold statement so the burden of proof rests with you.

Perhaps he's just going on what Bill Cosby was saying?
transcript of speech

[evman150]

Originally posted by RogerWilco@Mar 22 2005, 08:39 PM
He went so far as to say "few speak decipherable english". I think you watch and believe way to much TV. I lived in the US for over 8 years. I never once met a black person that spoke un-decipherable english. Where are you getting your information?

edit: for un-decipherable spelling

First of all of course I can't prove most american blacks speak poor english. It's stupid of you (not quoted) to suggest that. What exactly are the SI units for understandability?

And "indecipherable" was a bit of an exaggeration. Hard to understand maybe? I don't like to have to concentrate on what a person is saying to have to understand it.

I am getting my information from television and my experiences travelling throughout the United States.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by evman150+Mar 22 2005, 09:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (evman150 @ Mar 22 2005, 09:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RogerWilco@Mar 22 2005, 08:39 PM
He went so far as to say "few speak decipherable english". I think you watch and believe way to much TV. I lived in the US for over 8 years. I never once met a black person that spoke un-decipherable english. Where are you getting your information?

edit: for un-decipherable spelling

First of all of course I can't prove most american blacks speak poor english. It's stupid of you (not quoted) to suggest that. What exactly are the SI units for understandability?

And "indecipherable" was a bit of an exaggeration. Hard to understand maybe? I don't like to have to concentrate on what a person is saying to have to understand it.

I am getting my information from television and my experiences travelling throughout the United States. [/b][/quote]
What shows are you watching? Is "Fat Albert" even on TV anymore?

[RogerWilco]

Originally posted by evman150+Mar 22 2005, 10:56 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (evman150 @ Mar 22 2005, 10:56 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'> <!--QuoteBegin-RogerWilco@Mar 22 2005, 08:39 PM
He went so far as to say "few speak decipherable english". I think you watch and believe way to much TV. I lived in the US for over 8 years. I never once met a black person that spoke un-decipherable english. Where are you getting your information?

edit: for un-decipherable spelling

First of all of course I can't prove most american blacks speak poor english. It's stupid of you (not quoted) to suggest that. What exactly are the SI units for understandability?

And "indecipherable" was a bit of an exaggeration. Hard to understand maybe? I don't like to have to concentrate on what a person is saying to have to understand it.

I am getting my information from television and my experiences throughout the United States. [/b][/quote]
I never asked you to prove anything. I asked where you were getting your information from and you validated my statement saying your getting it from TV. And exactly where are you traveling in the US? I respect your first hand information from your travels. Of course there are people that act like Bill Cosby pointed out in his speech but it is far from the norm. He was targeting a portion of the American population. IMO you were just generalizing, but I may be wrong.

"And "indecipherable" was a bit of an exaggeration. Hard to understand maybe? I don't like to have to concentrate on what a person is saying to have to understand it."

I don't like to have to concentrate on people with your point of view but I try to. I also did not call you stupid for your point of view. If you want to resort to name calling then go at it. Im not going to get dragged though that mud.

[evman150]

Originally posted by RogerWilco+Mar 22 2005, 09:39 PM--></div><table border='0' align='center' width='95%' cellpadding='3' cellspacing='1'><tr><td>QUOTE (RogerWilco @ Mar 22 2005, 09:39 PM)</td></tr><tr><td id='QUOTE'>

First of all of course I can't prove most american blacks speak poor english. It's stupid of you (not quoted) to suggest that. What exactly are the SI units for understandability?

And "indecipherable" was a bit of an exaggeration. Hard to understand maybe? I don't like to have to concentrate on what a person is saying to have to understand it.

I am getting my information from television and my experiences throughout the United States.

I never asked you to prove anything. I asked where you were getting your information from and you validated my statement saying your getting it from TV. And exactly where are you traveling in the US? I respect your first hand information from your travels. Of course there are people that act like Bill Cosby pointed out in his speech but it is far from the norm. He was targeting a portion of the American population. IMO you were just generalizing, but I may be wrong.

"And "indecipherable" was a bit of an exaggeration. Hard to understand maybe? I don't like to have to concentrate on what a person is saying to have to understand it."

I don't like to have to concentrate on people with your point of view but I try to. I also did not call you stupid for your point of view. If you want to resort to name calling then go at it. Im not going to get dragged though that mud. [/b][/quote]
(not quoted)

The first part of my post was not replying to you, as I denoted using the above.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by evman150@Mar 22 2005, 08:31 PM
And why are there no black news anchors? Maybe it's because very few American blacks actually speak decipherable english. And this is not a race thing. Canadian black people speak perfect english. British black people speak perfect english. Australian blacks speak perfect english. But American blacks have real problems. I am not a linguist so I cannot tell you why, but it is the truth.

Bernie Shaw at CNN. Remember him anchoring the show from Baghdad in the 1st Gulf War? Don't forget Greg / Bryan Gumbel either. Watch any local news channel in the US and chances are good there'll be a black anchor. See, there's more than Fox News out there....

As for the rest of the quote, I just shake my head. I'd bet that plenty of white folk confounded you with their southern accents too. Not every "Black American" is hooked on ebonics.... Hell Snoop Dogg is even decipherable when he wants to be.....

[The Familia]

I've taken many sociology classes and had many good teachers (even minority teachers) and the facts state that inter-racial marriages have a very low success rate. Thigns are too difficult to make a relationship work. There is almost always a difference in Religion, economic status, traditions cultures etc...One of my professors who was a pakistani muslim even told us that it is not racism if one culture doesn't want to have a relationship with another. The facts just don't add up, it is very difficult for something like that to work. Heres an example. Im a Roman Catholic Italian, say I meet a Muslim East Indian...we love each other....We get married....Here comes the problems. Do we Baptize our kids or not? Do we celebrate Christmas or not. Do we go on a pilgrimage or not. If we can afford one trip where would it be. Italy or Pakistan. What do we eat? How do we raise our kids. Suddenly the picture isn't so rosy. I think it's a load of shinguard for some fool to call me racist because I'm not interested in dating someone of another race. That's crap. I was brought up in a particular culture and society, and the best chance I have of having a successful relationship is dating someone of my own ethnic background. It is to hard to throw away everything or try t intermingle everything from 2 different cultures. It doesn't work. If it does work then I think that's a shame, because you have just diluted or exterminated two separate, unique distinct cultures. Keep this up and someday there will be no culture and everyone will be the exact same fataing cardboard cutout.

[Tron_fdc]

Not wanting to add fuel to the fire here, but I do remember reading something on the net in regards to reading comprehension and African Americans. I googled it, and came up with this:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_...301/ai_n9215415

It's quite in-depth, so I only read the first page, but I think it more or less explains the point Evman is making. It's a little old as well (I believe the date is 2001) and not being a statistician I couldn't tell you if it would affect the results or not.

[Agamemnon]

Originally posted by The Familia@Mar 23 2005, 04:00 PM
I've taken many sociology classes and had many good teachers (even minority teachers) and the facts state that inter-racial marriages have a very low success rate. Thigns are too difficult to make a relationship work. There is almost always a difference in Religion, economic status, traditions cultures etc...One of my professors who was a pakistani muslim even told us that it is not racism if one culture doesn't want to have a relationship with another. The facts just don't add up, it is very difficult for something like that to work. Heres an example. Im a Roman Catholic Italian, say I meet a Muslim East Indian...we love each other....We get married....Here comes the problems. Do we Baptize our kids or not? Do we celebrate Christmas or not. Do we go on a pilgrimage or not. If we can afford one trip where would it be. Italy or Pakistan. What do we eat? How do we raise our kids. Suddenly the picture isn't so rosy. I think it's a load of shinguard for some fool to call me racist because I'm not interested in dating someone of another race. That's crap. I was brought up in a particular culture and society, and the best chance I have of having a successful relationship is dating someone of my own ethnic background. It is to hard to throw away everything or try t intermingle everything from 2 different cultures. It doesn't work. If it does work then I think that's a shame, because you have just diluted or exterminated two separate, unique distinct cultures. Keep this up and someday there will be no culture and everyone will be the exact same fataing cardboard cutout.

Maybe the reason that interracial marriages fail more than 'normal' ones is because of the attitude espoused by your sociology teacher.

Obviously, since it was a Sociology class, the prof. must have explored the fact that when same-race couples are the 'social-norm' (as evidenced by television, media, movies), that automatically gives non-'social norm' couples less of a chance, based on a _much_ higher chance of discrimination.

These couples are probably likely to get a lot more hassle/discrimination, which might lead to an increased failure rate.

I think it's a load of shinguard for some fool to call me racist because I'm not interested in dating someone of another race. That's crap. I was brought up in a particular culture and society, and the best chance I have of having a successful relationship is dating someone of my own ethnic background.

I guess... if thats the 'culture and society' you grew up in. I sure didn't. My society (environment) has always taught me that its wrong and stupid to judge people based on their skin colour or religion. My society also allowed me to have friends of several different colours and religions. Because of that, I realize that, in the most part, they're just like me, regardless of their skin colour. I've met white people with whom I shared no common interests, and Asians whom I can talk with for hours in full agreement.

In other words, judging people by their skin colour, even (especially) in the context of intimate relationships, is bogus. You're trying to justify why you wouldn't date outside your race by saying that its because of the 'culture and society' you grew up in. Did you grow up in Nazi Germany? The ol' South?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally posted by The Familia@Mar 23 2005, 09:00 AM
I've taken many sociology classes and had many good teachers (even minority teachers) and the facts state that inter-racial marriages have a very low success rate. Thigns are too difficult to make a relationship work. There is almost always a difference in Religion, economic status, traditions cultures etc...One of my professors who was a pakistani muslim even told us that it is not racism if one culture doesn't want to have a relationship with another. The facts just don't add up, it is very difficult for something like that to work. Heres an example. Im a Roman Catholic Italian, say I meet a Muslim East Indian...we love each other....We get married....Here comes the problems. Do we Baptize our kids or not? Do we celebrate Christmas or not. Do we go on a pilgrimage or not. If we can afford one trip where would it be. Italy or Pakistan. What do we eat? How do we raise our kids. Suddenly the picture isn't so rosy. I think it's a load of shinguard for some fool to call me racist because I'm not interested in dating someone of another race. That's crap. I was brought up in a particular culture and society, and the best chance I have of having a successful relationship is dating someone of my own ethnic background. It is to hard to throw away everything or try t intermingle everything from 2 different cultures. It doesn't work. If it does work then I think that's a shame, because you have just diluted or exterminated two separate, unique distinct cultures. Keep this up and someday there will be no culture and everyone will be the exact same fataing cardboard cutout.

I was under the impression you grew up in Canada. Where abouts in Italy were you raised?

Anyhow, if we are to follow your enlightened path, how far does it go? Please define the boundaries. I don't have a religion, my 4 grandparents were all born in Canada but their parents all come from 4 different countries in Europe. I'm something of a mutt. Should I check genetic codes of my potential mate? Or is it good enough if they are "white"? What if they are adopted and don't know where their ancestors came from?

Broad strokes like "Asian" or "White" get rather complicated when you think of all the different cultures of Asia, or all the different places white people come from.

I guess you've never heard of the concept of the "melting pot". Or maybe you have heard of it and deem it a massive failure.

[JiriHrdina]

^^^I agree Rouge but I think there is a larger point here. One of the great things about having a relationship (romantic of even a friendship) with someone from a different cultural background is learning about that culture. If the relationship is strong enough than you get past all of the questions you talk about (e.g. what do we eat, where do we go on vacation). Ultimately - those are important questions but if you love the person you work through it. Not to minimize it - but its not unlike me dating a girl that hates hockey (the horror of it!). Heck - if you don't want to date people from a different background that's your choice Familia, however, to suggest that "it doesn't work" is something I would disagree. In the right relationship it does work.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally posted by The Familia@Mar 23 2005, 10:00 AM
I've taken many sociology classes and had many good teachers (even minority teachers) and the facts state that inter-racial marriages have a very low success rate. Thigns are too difficult to make a relationship work. There is almost always a difference in Religion, economic status, traditions cultures etc...One of my professors who was a pakistani muslim even told us that it is not racism if one culture doesn't want to have a relationship with another. The facts just don't add up, it is very difficult for something like that to work. Heres an example. Im a Roman Catholic Italian, say I meet a Muslim East Indian...we love each other....We get married....Here comes the problems. Do we Baptize our kids or not? Do we celebrate Christmas or not. Do we go on a pilgrimage or not. If we can afford one trip where would it be. Italy or Pakistan. What do we eat? How do we raise our kids. Suddenly the picture isn't so rosy. I think it's a load of shinguard for some fool to call me racist because I'm not interested in dating someone of another race. That's crap. I was brought up in a particular culture and society, and the best chance I have of having a successful relationship is dating someone of my own ethnic background. It is to hard to throw away everything or try t intermingle everything from 2 different cultures. It doesn't work. If it does work then I think that's a shame, because you have just diluted or exterminated two separate, unique distinct cultures. Keep this up and someday there will be no culture and everyone will be the exact same fataing cardboard cutout.

Famiilia, I can agree with the fact that someone isn't a racist simply on the grounds that they aren't attracted to someone of a different race. Different strokes for different folks. Where it is racism to me is if all the attraction factors are there: physical, religious, culinary, personality(real soulmate stuff here) but someone refuses to go with someone for the simple reason of the color of their skin. Not exactly cross burning racism here but still very misguided (IMHO) beliefs to me.

Where I think your prof was full of crap was saying that inter-racial marriages are doomed to fail because of differences in religion, dreams, and behaviors. Newsflash - if all those factors aren't there in a relationship it doesn't matter whether it's interracial or not - the relationship is doomed.

It's entirely possible that inter-racial stuff works as one half (or both halves) have either adopted the culture of the other half. Is that a shame because you've diluted one? No way - isn't it possible that a melding of the best of both cultures is the best solution out there? Isn't it possible to uphold both cultures, compromising where needed.

Aren't all good relationships about compromise at the end of the day? Not capitulation mind you but real meaningful collaboration?

[Winsor_Pilates]

Originally posted by The Familia@Mar 23 2005, 09:00 AM
I've taken many sociology classes and had many good teachers (even minority teachers) and the facts state that inter-racial marriages have a very low success rate. Thigns are too difficult to make a relationship work. There is almost always a difference in Religion, economic status, traditions cultures etc...

Where did you take these Sociology classes? As a Sociology major I have a hard time believing that the point of the lecture was that inter-racial marriages don't work. I think you missed the point of the course. No Sociology teacher would be dim enough to suggest that inter-racial marriages are too difficult to work.

As far as your factors for failure go, they would fail any marriage. Any 2 people of different religions would have a hard time holding together a marraige, but not all people are religous anyway and there are many people of different races in the same religions. For example, there are as many Christians in India as people in Canada

What does economic status have to do with race? There are many rich and poor people from almost all races.

And if you had actually taken any Sociology classes they would have told you that traditions and cultures are factors of Sociolization, not race. Infact, most experts now believe that race is an invention of society anyway and the actual biological difference between any 2 races is so minor it can't even be considered.

Believe it or not, there are many people of different colour, that can grow up in the same culture, with the same traditions and religions and achieve the same economical status as each other.