ATV's and how dangerous they are.

[chemgear]

Originally Posted by Azure

Except most quads don't have roll bars.

And if you have a lot of experience with quads, you will probably be able to jump clear as it rolls because you understand how far it can go before the thing tips. I have done this many times.

Wait, what?

Okay, I'm totally not an expert but did you just say that you've had your quad roll many times? And your sole method of safety has been to time a jump clear of the vehicle in time? So doesn't that sound a little like the quad is a bit . . . poor on safety?

As the non expert, it sounds like a comment that the middle of a warzone/dangland is pretty safe. Bullets and drive-bys happen "many times" but every time so far you've been able to duck fast enough.

Again, just thinking out loud here.

[burn_this_city]

If you don't think they're safe don't ride them. Some of us prefer to live our lives rather than huddle in fear of what might kill us. If you don't drive the vehicle aggresively at its limits you won't have a problem.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

If you don't think they're safe don't ride them. Some of us prefer to live our lives rather than huddle in fear of what might kill us. If you don't drive the vehicle aggresively at its limits you won't have a problem.

So true. I am so sick of other people deciding what is dangerous and what is not to the individual. Last time I was at McClean creek I saw a seven year old on a mini-quad tearing it up. Are his parents negligent because they're not at the rink getting into fights with other parents?

Lots of wholesome activities are dangerous. Smoking pot is a lot less dangerous than off-roading, but what parent would make that choice?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

So true. I am so sick of other people deciding what is dangerous and what is not to the individual. Last time I was at McClean creek I saw a seven year old on a mini-quad tearing it up. Are his parents negligent because they're not at the rink getting into fights with other parents?

Lots of wholesome activities are dangerous. Smoking pot is a lot less dangerous than off-roading, but what parent would make that choice?

So how would raising the bar on the stability and safety standards negatively affect you?

Would it perhaps take some of the thrill out of it?... if the vehicles were more stable and safer to operate?

My question is not directed solely at Traditional... but at all those who are quite happy with the existing standards

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by Rerun

So how would raising the bar on the stability and safety standards negatively affect you?

Would it perhaps take some of the thrill out of it?... ever the vehicles were more stable and safer to operate?

No, I'm all for safety and innovation. I was addressing the issue that not every last freaking thing needs to be mandated. Buy a well-built high-end quad.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by chemgear

Wait, what?

Okay, I'm totally not an expert but did you just say that you've had your quad roll many times? And your sole method of safety has been to time a jump clear of the vehicle in time? So doesn't that sound a little like the quad is a bit . . . poor on safety?

As the non expert, it sounds like a comment that the middle of a warzone/dangland is pretty safe. Bullets and drive-bys happen "many times" but every time so far you've been able to duck fast enough.

Again, just thinking out loud here.

No I said that people with a lot of experience know how far they can take a quad before it tips, something I've done many times.

As in I've been at high speeds a lot of times and made some dangerous turns and what not but I haven't tipped it that much because I know how far you can go with it.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

No, I'm all for safety and innovation. I was addressing the issue that not every last freaking thing needs to be mandated. Buy a well-built high-end quad.

Exactly.

The government shouldn't be regulating every aspect of our lives. People should be responsible for their own safety.

In other words, wear a helmet if you're off-roading.

[JFK]

Originally Posted by Rerun

It certainly is a lot noisier and more crowded out there since quads started multiplying like rabbits.

How many of us have been out camping, and at 3:00 AM you've been woken up because some drunk a-holes have been out tearing around the campsite on their quads?

Also, sometimes on the weekend the trails are like a goddamn freeway out there with all the quads running up and down the trails. I long for the good old days when you could go for miles without crossing paths with another offroad vehicle.

In my opinion, quads have ruined the sport of offroading. Now everyone and their dog has one and they all bring them everytime they go camping for the weekend. It used to be that if you wanted to do some serious offroading you basically had to build your own. Now anyone with a few bucks in their pocket can go out and buy an atv. ... and go for it... with all their ignorance in tow.

Aaaand the truth comes out.

The only reason you care about the safety is because you don't want as many people to be able to afford quads, and we all know that with greater safety and engineering comes greater cost.

"I long for the good old days when you could go for miles without crossing paths with another offroad vehicle."

The picture of the ATV's you posted, the ones you think should replace the current models after we ban them, would cost around 20k. For comparison, my boss just bought a 2009 Honda 420 for 6k.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by JFK

Aaaand the truth comes out.

The only reason you care about the safety is because you don't want as many people to be able to afford quads, and we all know that with greater safety and engineering comes greater cost.

"I long for the good old days when you could go for miles without crossing paths with another offroad vehicle."

The picture of the ATV's you posted, the ones you think should replace the current models after we ban them, would cost around 20k. For comparison, my boss just bought a 2009 Honda 420 for 6k.

But I'm sure his homemade off-roader is far safer than a professionally engineered ATV.

[Shnabdabber]

Originally Posted by Rerun

But aside from the education aspect...

Would it really be so bad if the stability standards (a standard set 21 years ago) were raised, even just a little bit, in order to make the quad a more stable machine?

Basically the atv industry has been operating under a set of standards that they themselves set 21 years ago when the ATV industry was just in its infancy.

If the automobile industry was allowed to operate like that we would still be driving vehicles with no seat belts, no air bags, and all the other safety features that are in vehicles today.

Plus cars would still be getting 10 miles to the gallon.


Industry doesn't change unless they are forced to. Change is expensive and companies are out there to make as much money as they can.... so of course they will resist and fight this.... and put out all the propaganda they do.... kind of like the tobacco industry.

*sigh*

This thread needs more facepalm. Your arguments/solutions are beyond impractical; your reasoning borderline conspiricist...

This ATV set of standards you are complaining about is set, made, improved by engineers who; through R&D and testing find out whats safe and whats not. I would trust people who make quads to know what is safe for a quad over a suit that works for the government.

Originally Posted by rerun

Plus cars would still be getting 10 miles to the gallon.

You realize that it was common for carbureted, large displacement engines in cars in trucks to get around 30 mpg give or take before the lead was taken out fuel?

You say you've never seen a trail with barbwire fences, or overhanging trees that can knock you off a machine? Well good sir I say you've never seen trail.

I don't know where to start with all of this. Im on your side in that its too bad people are getting hurt on these things, but if you want to make quads 100% safe, you outlaw them. No amount of seatbelts, rollbars, wide tires (lol) tipover sensors, god as copilot ect is gonna stop accidents. A 4 wheeled machine built to travel offroad has potential to become unstable on uneven terrain? Thank goodness we have the internet and bloggers to alert people of this...

I guess I don't get why people get on crusades for this type of crap. People know the dangers involved with offroading and accept that risk the second they sit on a quad and move. The people who don't know the risks... well they won't be around for long anyways.

Anyways... mikeytheredneck was right. You have places to go? You need a bike. I'd never buy one of those slow, useless, roll-o-matic heaps. Seriously. But I'd never tell someone they don't have the right to ride one.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by GreenTeaFrapp

But I'm sure his homemade off-roader is far safer than a professionally engineered ATV.

Its not homemade... although there are some extremely safe and well built home-builds out there. Its a truck and its been modified slightly.




Since this pic was taken a 9500# winch has been added to the front

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by JFK

Aaaand the truth comes out.

The only reason you care about the safety is because you don't want as many people to be able to afford quads, and we all know that with greater safety and engineering comes greater cost.

Boo hoo.... my heart just breaks for you and the tears are just a runnin down my face...

Originally Posted by JFK

"I long for the good old days when you could go for miles without crossing paths with another offroad vehicle."

The picture of the ATV's you posted, the ones you think should replace the current models after we ban them, would cost around 20k. For comparison, my boss just bought a 2009 Honda 420 for 6k.

Just because I'm not a big fan of all the quads out there doesn't negate the fact that in their current design they are inheirently unsafe, as a result of the way they are designed and built under current industry standards.

As for cost... the average single seater quad costs about $10,000. If you have a man and his wife each buying one... that is $20,000.... which is the same cost as what someone on here said a side by side would cost.

Seems a wash to me.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Shnabdabber

*sigh*

This ATV set of standards you are complaining about is set, made, improved by engineers who; through R&D and testing find out whats safe and whats not. I would trust people who make quads to know what is safe for a quad over a suit that works for the government.

I call bullpoop on this one.... did you actually even watch the video that I posted in my op? .... Parts 1 and 2.... not just Part 1?
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...1024?hub=WFive

....Alberta is a hotbed of ATV accidents. Every year more people are injured in ATV accidents there than in any other province or territory. What's more, 117 people have died in ATV accidents in Alberta since 2002.


......ATV safety and the stability of the vehicles first came to the attention of the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission more than 20 years ago. The CPSC took legal action against ATV manufacturers claiming in legal filings that the machines presented an "imminent and unreasonable risk of death and severe personal injury" and accused them of promoting "an illusion of stability."

In response, American ATV manufacturers agreed to minimum safety standards including lateral stability. Essentially, the industry agreed not to build any ATVs that were more prone to tip than the least stable model already sold. A complex mathematical formula determined a minimum lateral stability or Kst value of 0.89. That standard was also applied in Canada on a voluntary basis.


.....So far, the Canadian government has allowed the ATV industry to continue setting its own standards for vehicle safety and stability.

Basically the industry promised not to make a quad any more dangerous than the most dangerous one manufactured at the time 20 years ago... and since then they say they haven't .... but who knows because nobody actually tests them... the industry polices themselves.... ya right...

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Shnabdabber

*sigh*


You realize that it was common for carbureted, large displacement engines in cars in trucks to get around 30 mpg give or take before the lead was taken out fuel?

I have owned a 1969 Dodge with a 340 ci engine, a 1970 Camaro with a 350 ci engine, and another Dodge with a 318 ci engine...

Trust me... they did not get 30 mpg with leaded gas.

And those were all small block v8's.... not large displacement engines. Your large block v8's got even worse mpg.

[Dynamic]

Originally Posted by Rerun

A gun can be safe in the right hands too... but what would the world be like if anybody who had the cash could go out and buy a gun with no training at all... and all the guns had hair triggers, were full auto, no safeties, and 20 round magazines?

Well a gun is a weapon and a quad is a motorized vehicle, not really the best thing to compare it to but I guess training is probably an issue with quads. I grew up in an area where starting out as kids we were driving quads. Heck when I was 14 me and my buddies went to a quad/fishing trip by ourselves deep in the bush. Our parents had no issues at all letting us go, but then again we are not the ones getting hurt.

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by Dynamic

Well a gun is a weapon and a quad is a motorized vehicle, not really the best thing to compare it to but I guess training is probably an issue with quads. I grew up in an area where starting out as kids we were driving quads. Heck when I was 14 me and my buddies went to a quad/fishing trip by ourselves deep in the bush. Our parents had no issues at all letting us go, but then again we are not the ones getting hurt.

Yes... proper training is an issue and so is the fact that the government does not make such training mandatory.... especially for kids.
A quad is a dangerous machine, which in unskilled hands (and sometimes even in skilled hands) can cause serious injury and even death.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yes... proper training is an issue and so is the fact that the government does not make such training mandatory.... especially for kids.
A quad is a dangerous machine, which in unskilled hands (and sometimes even in skilled hands) can cause serious injury and even death.

If there was only some... way... of making people aware of this so that they don't unsuspectingly get on an ATV and get hurt without ever knowing that it could be dangerous in the first place.

Oh wait.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Rerun

As for cost... the average single seater quad costs about $10,000. If you have a man and his wife each buying one... that is $20,000.... which is the same cost as what someone on here said a side by side would cost.

Seems a wash to me.

This is just absurd.

If you and your buddy both go offroading in your trucks to the same places, why not just sell your truck, roll that money into making your friend's truck better and with more safety features and hop in his passenger seat?

If you go skydiving with someone, why not just strap yourselves to each other and use one parachute?

[Rerun]

Originally Posted by frinkprof

If there was only some... way... of making people aware of this so that they don't unsuspectingly get on an ATV and get hurt without ever knowing that it could be dangerous in the first place.

Oh wait.

Yes... a label is always good. I always do exactly what labels say.... especially when I was a kid.
A good label solves a lot of problems. This world needs more warning labels.

[frinkprof]

Originally Posted by Rerun

Yes... a label is always good. I always do exactly what labels say.... especially when I was a kid.
A good label solves a lot of problems. This world needs more warning labels.

When you don't follow the instructions on a label, and you screw something up, do you have anyone to blame but yourself?