Have the Flames Scouts Really Drafted that Poorly?? - Page 4 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

oldschoolcalgary · 04-19-2010, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Weiser Wonder

Nemisz is slow right now and that's his main problem. Apparently, his stride is fine but he just needs to add strength. If this is true, it's a good pick for the Flames because he has size and good hands.

the kid has size and decent hands...the speed is a pretty major concern though. I hope that he and his coaches/advisors/flames realize this and work on getting his skating skills up to where they need to be...

Flame4Ever · 04-20-2010, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doc Hudson

Why is this in past tense? If Nemisz is developed properly he could still yet be an impact player. I know he hasn't worked out quite as well as this rose-colored glasses forum had hoped... but we all must be realistic. Even the Mr Clutch Jordan Eberle isn't an imact player yet (chosen 3 picks earlier) or really anyone after Del Zotto at 20th has shown they can make the jump to the NHL (although Tyler Ennis looks good).

John Carlson is making a difference with the Caps right now. I didn't even have Nemisz ranked in the first round.
If by impact player you mean a guy like Knuble or Burnette then yes I suppose he could be come an "impact" player. If you're talking about a guy who is a premier power forward who you build around, then you've got to be kidding.

Pastiche · 04-20-2010, 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame4Ever

I can't speak of other leagues as much, but the Flames completely miss the mark when it comes to OHL talent. Other than TJ Brodie, they have been flat out awful.
Nemisz was a very poor pick, especially considerin John Carlson is going to be an impact player in the NHL by next year.

Don't forget Tyler Ennis. Typical Sutter drafting. Big = Good!

Imported_Aussie · 04-20-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Don't forget Tyler Ennis. Typical Sutter drafting. Big = Good!

too soon to throw that choice up as a bad call...If Ennis turns into Nigel Dawes and Nemisz ends up a Big 2nd liner with touch around the net, then the flames win that decision...

its even too early to judge the '06 draft IMO...some of these guys ends up in the NCAA system, need time to develop in the AHL, etc

its not looking good on that choice right now...but a lot can change

Pastiche · 04-20-2010, 09:47 AM

I wanted Ennis on draft day so I am biased. Hated the Nemisz pick at the time knowing that Ennis was still available. Hated it when Sutter took a big slow guy OHLer over a small, speedy, and skilled 2-way WHLer. Hated it when Ennis went on to produce at the WJHC. The Nemisz pick will look bad for every game that Ennis is effectively producing in the NHL.

flambers · 04-20-2010, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastiche

I wanted Ennis on draft day so I am biased. Hated the Nemisz pick at the time knowing that Ennis was still available. Hated it when Sutter took a big slow guy OHLer over a small, speedy, and skilled 2-way WHLer. Hated it when Ennis went on to produce at the WJHC. The Nemisz pick will look bad for every game that Ennis is effectively producing in the NHL.

LOL, I understand you like Ennis, but how is Nemisz a "big slow" player?

Personally I would think it will take another 3 years before its clear who will was the better selection.

oldschoolcalgary · 04-20-2010, 09:56 AM

i don't think Sutter likes small players...the player i was disappointed in not taking a flyer on was Brandon Kozun...

flambers · 04-20-2010, 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

i don't think Sutter likes small players...the player i was disappointed in not taking a flyer on was Brandon Kozun...

Kozoun was taken in the 6th round... 29 other NHL clubs passed on this guy.

JiriHrdina · 04-20-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Kozoun was taken in the 6th round... 29 other NHL clubs passed on this guy.

Multiple times - and for good reason. The guy is TINY. He has some serious odds to overcome to make the NHL.

I think fans fall in love with certain prospects before the draft and set themselves up for disappointment when their team doesn't pick "their guy".

Pastiche · 04-20-2010, 10:11 AM

Quote:

how is Nemisz a "big slow" player?

he's big and slow by the fact that he's big and slow

Did you see him at WJHC, guy could barely keep himself in the play. Not a good situation when the NHL is even faster. And no, he doesn't have the skill to overcome the speed issue, IMO.

Anyway, I know it's unpopular to trash our prospects and to call Nemisz slow so I'll stop. I will just reiterate that I never liked the pick and watching Ennis play NHL playoff games, score more in junior and look like he belongs on a WJC team only adds to my ire.

jeremywilhelm · 04-20-2010, 10:21 AM

Nemisz is not slow. I'm not sure how this myth has suddenly taken new life.

flambers · 04-20-2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastiche

he's big and slow by the fact that he's big and slow

.

Sorry but that is false the guy is not slow, he would never of made the WJHC if he was slow. He would never of played on the first line.

Yes I have watched him play quite a few times plus I have seen him at the Flames Training camp there is no way he is a big slow player.

VladtheImpaler · 04-20-2010, 10:40 AM

Not content to have been debated a dozen times on the main thread, this topic has found a new home.

I know there is a lot of bias either way, but, objectively, THN FW has us ranked 23rd - that's NHL scouts'/personnel managers' opinion. That includes the guys we "hope" turn out. So, unless some of these guys turn out better than expected, it is what it is. Who is to blame - luck, Sutter, scouts, development system? I suspect all of the above...

JiriHrdina · 04-20-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

Not content to have been debated a dozen times on the main thread, this topic has found a new home.

I know there is a lot of bias either way, but, objectively, THN FW has us ranked 23rd - that's NHL scouts'/personnel managers' opinion. That includes the guys we "hope" turn out. So, unless some of these guys turn out better than expected, it is what it is. Who is to blame - luck, Sutter, scouts, development system? I suspect all of the above...

I've heard from a couple people that the scouting staff has undergone some significant changes in the last couple years. I don't know the staff well enough to know who was hired/let go when...but if true - does that new staff not get time to show what they can do?

Pastiche · 04-20-2010, 10:49 AM

They seem to have made strides in the Erixon pick.

VladtheImpaler · 04-20-2010, 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I've heard from a couple people that the scouting staff has undergone some significant changes in the last couple years. I don't know the staff well enough to know who was hired/let go when...but if true - does that new staff not get time to show what they can do?

Of course. The question was "have they drafted poorly?" To this point, yes. What happens from here on in, we shall see... Obviously, our ranking relative to our competitors will not improve this year (barring trades), unless we finally find that later round gem.

Cactus Jack · 04-20-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Kozoun was taken in the 6th round... 29 other NHL clubs passed on this guy.

Yes but was matters is someone took a flyer on him. I would be perfectly happy if we bombed all but our 6th round picks every year if they turned into impact players. It doesn't matter where or how you get that, soon long as you do. And that's the point to tie this back to the Flames lack of drafting and development

oldschoolcalgary · 04-20-2010, 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flambers

Kozoun was taken in the 6th round... 29 other NHL clubs passed on this guy.

multiple teams passed multiple times; that is the nature of any draft...the fact that teams take a pass on a player in round 3 for example doesn't mean a whole lot.

teams generate boards and slot in players based on value vs draft position...a guy like Kozun is definitely a risk, hence the reason why he dropped. However, in assessing risk/reward, you'd think some team might think a 5th round pick is worth the risk/reward for a guy like Kozun.

you can covet a player, but also believe that they could be available in the fifth round...value for the pick is a big part of any team's draft matrix.

sevenarms · 04-21-2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pastiche

Did you see him at WJHC, guy could barely keep himself in the play. Not a good situation when the NHL is even faster. And no, he doesn't have the skill to overcome the speed issue, IMO.

Now Nemisz didn't have the greatest WJHC, his play didn't step up, and he hardly made a name for himself (aside from negative connotations). But whenever I was watching him it seemed that he was always playing safe. Nazem Kadri was all over the place, throwing himself out of position and Nemisz was holding back to keep the play from turning the other way. I thought Kadri was the main reason that Nemisz didn't look great at the WJHC.

Azure · 04-21-2010, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame4Ever

John Carlson is making a difference with the Caps right now. I didn't even have Nemisz ranked in the first round.
If by impact player you mean a guy like Knuble or Burnette then yes I suppose he could be come an "impact" player. If you're talking about a guy who is a premier power forward who you build around, then you've got to be kidding.

If Nemisz turned into a similar player like Brunette...the Flames could laugh all the way to the bank.

He does seem a bit bigger though. Power forward build, but not premier power forward skill and ability.