Jungle Jim Hunter blasting Canadian Olympic team on 960

[jeremywilhelm]

Originally Posted by Flashpoint

We do.

They all play for our hockey teams.

Just none of them are on the Flames....

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Salt Water Cowboy #10

To be fair, the population of the US that lives in areas where winter sport is possible, would be much lower. So the ratio should be higher. maybe around 1/5?

A fair point, but the NE US is more densely populated than the southern areas. I added the population up a few of the NE states and got to 33% pretty quickly before I stopped though.

Wiki link to US pop per state

I didn't include California even though it has lots of skiing. I'd say 40% would be a more accurate guess.

[La Flames Fan]

Originally Posted by getbak

Where did he get that number from? Right now, Canada has 6 medals. I'd like to know where he believes the other 12 medals should have come from?

From everything I've read, Canada has been pretty consistent with where most experts expected them to be.

This person has compiled estimates from a variety of sources to come up with projected medal counts, and Canada is only slightly behind its projected pace (projected at 7, actually at 6): http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/2010/...ons-day-6.html

He still has Canada projecting to finish in second, only 1 medal behind the USA. One unexpected result, and Canada can still "own the podium".

Holy smokes, where are we going to get 25 more medals????

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by jeremywilhelm

Just none of them are on the Flames....

LOL - Iggy and Hagman look to have some killer instinct.

The point being - there aren't as many good Hockey players coming out of the US because football, baseball, and basketball take most of the top athletes.

Ditto for Canada in the non-hockey winter Olympic sports. I mean - Matt Lombardi might be the best speedskater the world has ever seen (he certainly has the hands for it!), but we'll never know. Someone noticed he was fast on ice, and handed him a hockey stick.

I doubt he regrets the decision.

[Pastiche]

I doubt he regrets the decision.

You never know, maybe he would have enjoyed a life where he trains his ass off every day for a shot at glory twice (two olympics 4 years apart) in his whole career all while eating government cheese, balancing his family commitments, working part time and have internet hockey board jabronis question his desire and work ethic in the end if he comes up short.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Prototype

Do I have my numbers wrong, or have we already matched the total of medals Canada won in Calgary '88? Are we not in the top 4-5 for number of medals? Seems like each day we're grabbing more, and realistically, our stronger sports are still to come (bobsledding and hockey come to mind)...

It needs to be noted that both of Canada's gold medals so far and five of their six medals in total all have been earned in sports that were NOT part of the Olympics in 1988. While I am not a big fan of being critical regarding performances, Hunter may have a point in that I think that both the results in mens Apline and mens long-track speed skating are pretty disappointing.

[Flashpoint]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

It needs to be noted that both of Canada's gold medals so far and five of their six medals in total all have been earned in sports that were NOT part of the Olympics in 1988. While I am not a big fan of being critical regarding performances, Hunter may have a point in that I think that both the results in mens Apline and mens long-track speed skating are pretty disappointing.

Yes, I believe someone mentioned that we DID win a gold in 88 for women's curling, but it "didn't count" because it was an exhibition sport.

[troutman]

Jim just blasted Emily Brydon for not attacking today.

[The Yen Man]

Canadian culture promotes going into hockey more than anything else, and that's just the reality of it. Think about it. If I were a budding young athlete at an early age with tremendous athletic ability and wanted to play a sport for a living, what would I most likely choose? I'd choose hockey because it would bring the most glory, the most money, and the most admiration from the public. Everyone forgets who won the speed skating in the world championships, or the moguls at the olympics. But EVERYONE remembers Sakic and Iginla's awesome performance in 2002.

As bad as it sounds, the only sport I really look forward to is men's hockey. For me, we could win as many medals as we want, but if we don't do well in men's hockey, then I consider these Olympics a failure. I'm sure I'm not the only Canadian who thinks this as well.

[FlameCity]

Originally Posted by troutman

He blasted Getzlaf the other day too - saying he was the laziest guy in the gym when he was a Hitman - that 50 year old men were working harder.

I laughed when I heard that, while he was on the Hitmen there was no player I despised more, you just wanted to punch him or something . . . if for no other reason than to wake him up! There was a reason he was stripped of the C. In our row he was known as Getzloaf

[grambo]

Originally Posted by troutman

Jim just blasted Emily Brydon for not attacking today.

I just missed her combined run a few min ago, but this is not a good course for her, she's better on straight/fast courses (look at her, she's huge). I think people hyping her for a medal yesterday were stupid, same with Osbourn-Paradis and Dixon. CTV is hyping people who have an outside shot as favourites, really stupid. Edit: what I mean is that CTV is hyping our skiers (who are talented, and have had some good WC results) as sure bets for golds, as if they were Lindsay Vonn (aka consistent) which they are definitely not.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Flabbibulin

This is only an issue in less popular sports.

Will we ever have to argue in Canada about a lack of funding (corporate and federal) for hockey?

Funny you should mention that. The guys on Primetime Sports had a very interesting debate going a couple days ago about how hockey is rapidly becoming a "rich mans sport" and a couple of people on the round table promoted greater subsidies for kids who want to play but their parents aren't able to afford the cost. They argued, quite convincingly, that cost is denying many thousands of kids the chance to play.

From my POV, spending on athletics is one of the most valuable social subsidies we can consider. We need to get as many people involved in sports as we can. Kids learn the value of teamwork, learn how to interrelate, learn the dedication it takes to be successful, and learn how to keep in shape. Active adults, likewise, are in better shape, and a healthier society reduces the burden on our health care system.

When our athletes win medals, it inspires people. It boosts the morale of the nation, and leads many kids to gain an interest in the sport we succeed at. This is a case where I think the public cost is very easily justified.

[Bob]

Originally Posted by La Flames Fan

Holy smokes, where are we going to get 25 more medals????

IIRC, Canada has very few medals at this time during the Turin Olympics. Didn't it take them like a week to get a medal or something?

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by grambo

I just missed her combined run a few min ago, but this is not a good course for her, she's better on straight/fast courses (look at her, she's huge). I think people hyping her for a medal yesterday were stupid, same with Osbourn-Paradis and Dixon. CTV is hyping people who have an outside shot as favourites, really stupid. Edit: what I mean is that CTV is hyping our skiers (who are talented, and have had some good WC results) as sure bets for golds, as if they were Lindsay Vonn (aka consistent) which they are definitely not.

osbourn-paradis' commercial on CTV did enough hyping for himself. "This is my home course" etc.... if he didn't believe he shouldn't have said it.

[grambo]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

osbourn-paradis' commercial on CTV did enough hyping for himself. "This is my home course" etc.... if he didn't believe he shouldn't have said it.

Agreed, dude has an attitude no doubt about it. Can't really blame the network for hype, it's all marketing for ratings and viewership, but it sucks when people get down on the athletes who probably don't have the past results to justify potential medals.

[simmer2]

Originally Posted by sa226

This is what I don't understand about the criticism of the "Own the podium" program.

Wasn't the program created to improve funding so that Canadians can compete with other countries on the same level financially?

The international press has hammered us on the own the podium program, apparently its un-canadian to want to win, and apparently the program is also responsible for the death of the Georgian luger.....

I don't get it.

As to your point on Australia. I think it would be worth comparing the funding between the 2 countries. We have a presence in both the Summer and Winter games, where as Australia really only has a presence in the Summer games, so the majority of their funding would go to Summer athletes. Just a guess.

Okay, so I've done some digging on this and here is what I've come up with for funding of Canada Vs. Australia:

Australia Funding

Sport funding in Australia is supported by the government to the tune of $2.142 billion Australian Dollars in 2005-06 (worth slightly less than Canadian Dollars). This is shared between the state and the federal government.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport_in_Australia

(I know it is wiki so take with a grain of salt but it is likely within the ballpark)

Canada Funding

http://gymbrooke.com/funding.htm

According to this website about $133mm was funded to Canadian sports programs in 2005-2006. If you add in the $117mm 5-year Own The Podium strategy, that addes about $20mm extra per year, so that works out to about $155mm/year spent on amateur sports. This is spread between Winter and Summer events but the weight is generally much heavier on the Winter events.

Again, this is just a brief search but if it is correct, then Australia spends 16x more money on Amateur sports than Canada. Australia also has only 21 million people vs. Canada's 35 million people so per person this funding is even less in Canada.

As for the argument about social programs, the last time I checked Australia had a very good Universal Health Care program and their social programs are still funded strongly. Taxation in Australia is roughly the same as Canada's, except they have a 10% GST versus our 5% GST.

Either way, I don't buy the argument that by funding more amateur sports hurts other social programs, we just need to re-allocate the money better. Kids look up to heroes at the olympics and get involved because we do well. That in turn gets kids involved in sports which keeps them healthier which reduces health care costs, etc. etc. Not to mention the value of pursuing a sport to its fullest and realizing what you can achieve.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by simmer2

Again, this is just a brief search but if it is correct, then Australia spends 16x more money on Amateur sports than Canada. Australia also has only 21 million people vs. Canada's 35 million people so per person this funding is even less in Canada.

Further, every Aussie between 18 and 25 is currently residing in Whistler and Banff.

[OldDutch]

I think the point by Jungle Jim, and I do see it and share it, is this. "Own the Podium" set the measure of success by medals, not trying your best, or having fun, just medal count.

Basically the gov't said, here is a bunch of cash we are going to invest in you. You have been asking for this money for a long time, so here it is. In return (ROI) you will provide us with medals. Our country will be proud, and everybody wins.

Now when the athlete accepts that cash it comes with purse strings attached. You have now agreed to demanded result for money (aka a real job). When the performance does not meet the result, and you fall on your face, you fail to meet the agreed upon result. Like any job the boss gets pi**ed, and in this event the tax payers are the boss.

So when an athlete takes that money and comes back and says things like "I don't know if I have it in me anymore" or "I am just here to have fun", the boss gets infuriated. Justifiably so.

I do agree with Jungle Jim, because of the athletes so far who took the money, and didn't try their best. Like any boss who pulls a slacking employee into his office, he is sending notice that this attitude is not acceptable to the rest of the team.

However, I think he should save the rant until the end of the games. That is when we will see.

[kevman]

Originally Posted by MJM

Shawn White ... (virtually unknown prior to the 2006 Olympics)

Haha... WHAT!?

Virtually unknown to whom? Unknown to the general media? Or maybe unknown to the casual olympic fans who actually know very little about the sports they rip into the athletes for? Shaun White was far from an unknown prior to '06. He was the heavy favourite in Torino and delivered. He probably would have been at Salt Lake but was too young to compete and won his first X-Games medal that same year at the age of 15. He's been a member of Burton's factory team since the age of 10 or 11 while being "home schooled" by the team when he took time off school. His pro models began as kids models when he was too little to ride real boards. Apart from some hockey players Shaun White is the biggest name at this olympics and the same held true for the 2006 olympics at which time he was far from an unknown...


Anyways, maybe it's just me, but I get a little tired of hearing people criticize athletes that compete in sports that the critic really know nothing about. To say an athlete simply "mailed it in" is really unfair. I know there have been a few upsets but I would guess that there have been just as many for other countries at this point. There are a lot of Olympic athletes that really don't stand a chance at a medal and for them to be content with simply making it to the olympics, which is a huge accomplishment in itself, is fair in my opinion.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Ha, very interesting discussion. I can't say I disagree with Jim Hunter about the "if we win, then good, if we lose, oh well" attitude. Jeremywilhelm, you're completely correct. Funny how our disciplines are the same. I had a pretty bright future in the International Taekwondo Federation was ranked in Malaysia for my weight division for freestyle sparring. Came to canada and at the urging of some masters, switched over to World Taekwondo Federation so I'd have a chance to maybe one day compete in the olympics. It was night and day when it came to attitude and funding. My previous gym was extremely competitive with a "win at all cost" attitude. Canadian gym was vastly different with an "as long as you did your best, then everything is good" attitude. I was given all the motivation and tools to succeed, but in Canada I felt I was handicapped.

Well, maybe things have started to change. I can only speak from an experience 20 years ago. We are winning more medals now than ever, so maybe the attitude and funding isn't as bad as Jim says it is?