Raptors 09/10 season thread

[Gozer]

Evans won't make a lick of difference.

The entire team can't stop penetration and they have no shot-blockers. Coach Sam made them work through it, Triano is conceding the battlefield and surrendering open looks against any kind of effective offense.
Few teams shoot as poorly as the Bulls do.

[octothorp]

Another brutal start, awesome finish. Down by 22, and come back to win by 15. That's outscoring them by 37 over the last 2.5 quarters, and something like 23-2 over the last six minutes. I was so close to turning this game off. Anyway, can't get too excited given the opposition. That Suns game is going to be such a trackmeet.

[Machiavelli]

Great effort against one of the best offenses in the league, despite the loss. Didn't get any favours from the refs, that's for sure.

Very exciting in the end, but Turk couldn't make another shot.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Machiavelli

Great effort against one of the best offenses in the league, despite the loss. Didn't get any favours from the refs, that's for sure.

Very exciting in the end, but Turk couldn't make another shot.

Agreed on all counts; the defense was better, and Turkoglu isn't often going to miss both the open three and the fadeaway at the top of the key. Still, it would have been better to kick it inside on that last play, but Hedo struggled with the handle and Phoenix defended the inside pass pretty well.

Yeah, frustrating seeing everyone the Raptors play get calls that the Raps don't get. Biggest annoyance I have with the NBA. It's hard not to feel like refs are intentionally keeping opposing bigs from getting into true foul trouble.

[OzSome]

I think the Raptors are a lot better team this season than their previous season. Hedo Torkuglu is the biggest addition to the team. He can play both guard and forward position. He is also a good passer and that's what Chris Bosh needs when he wants to play under the basket. Bellini(#0) is a big step up for Kapono. Jack is a good 2nd PG and Amir Johnson might be a little smaller but the guy works hard and does his job. I can't wait to see this Evans guy play. I heard he will do the dirty work for the Raptors.

One thing I noticed from the Raptors this season is they still don't choose their shot. You cannot rely on the long shot and 3 pointer all the time. They should give the ball to Chris Bosh a lot especially when the player guarding him is much smaller.

[cross16]

I like the Raps as well.
Despite the loss I do like the fact that not only did they hang in with the suns, that they kep them to around 100 points. Not great, but a step in the right direction.

[Gozer]

Nice of Jay to let Sam Mitchell draw that last play up.

There are only so many fade-away jumpshots a team can make. They needed Bosh (or anyone) going hard in the lane, shooting closer to the basket and getting to the stripe. The refs were calling everything all game, why bail out the defense by running a jumpshot play with Hedo & Bargs?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by OzSome

I think the Raptors are a lot better team this season than their previous season. Hedo Torkuglu is the biggest addition to the team. He can play both guard and forward position. He is also a good passer and that's what Chris Bosh needs when he wants to play under the basket. Bellini(#0) is a big step up for Kapono. Jack is a good 2nd PG and Amir Johnson might be a little smaller but the guy works hard and does his job. I can't wait to see this Evans guy play. I heard he will do the dirty work for the Raptors.

Hedo's post entry passes are excellent.

[bluejays]

Originally Posted by Gozer

Nice of Jay to let Sam Mitchell draw that last play up.

I didn't get a chance to catch the game, but what is this last play you're referring to involving Sam Mitchell? Or is that just a typo?

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by fleury

I didn't get a chance to catch the game, but what is this last play you're referring to involving Sam Mitchell? Or is that just a typo?

I think he's referring to the lack of creativity on the last play, where Hedo had the ball for twelve seconds and ended up settling for a contested fade-away.

I thought that Triano has been pretty good about his set plays out of time-outs both this year and last year, but it's hard to see what they were trying to do here. Although Phoenix was really aggressively defending the inside pass and Turkoglu mishandled the ball with about five seconds left, which in the end forced him to take the jumper. I suspect that the plan was for Turk to take it inside right around the time he fumbled the ball, and either take it himself or dish to Bosh.

[OzSome]

Originally Posted by octothorp

I think he's referring to the lack of creativity on the last play, where Hedo had the ball for twelve seconds and ended up settling for a contested fade-away.

I thought that Triano has been pretty good about his set plays out of time-outs both this year and last year, but it's hard to see what they were trying to do here. Although Phoenix was really aggressively defending the inside pass and Turkoglu mishandled the ball with about five seconds left, which in the end forced him to take the jumper. I suspect that the plan was for Turk to take it inside right around the time he fumbled the ball, and either take it himself or dish to Bosh.

I agree. I am sure the plan wasn't Torkuglu going for a shot but because he almost fumbled the ball and not much time left, he sort of panic and just went for it. Raptors are more relaxed this season than the previous seasons. I am sure the coaching changes were a big factor on the improvement. I like what Triano is doing with giving the first 5 unit some breathing room but playing the second unit. I noticed that Calderon when not tired is making good decisions out there and same as the other guys.

Anyone know why the big guy(can't remember his name, the big Russian guy) not playing? Is he injured?

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by OzSome

Anyone know why the big guy(can't remember his name, the big Russian guy) not playing? Is he injured?

Rasho (Radoslav Nestorovic) has been playing.

I think he's sitting out against teams they don't need the matchup for. PHX has no one that plays back-to-the-basket and they run.

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by OzSome

I agree. I am sure the plan wasn't Torkuglu going for a shot but because he almost fumbled the ball and not much time left, he sort of panic and just went for it.

The play kinda fell apart, but it was a slow 6'10" guy running off a screen from a slow 7' guy. A jumpshot is the most realistic result and there is almost no chance of a foul or a rebound.

I finally appreciate adding Hedo for his "bad shot shooting" - taking shots after a play fails and the playclock is dwindling. But his shooting should not be an offensive focal point.

[octothorp]

Originally Posted by Gozer

The play kinda fell apart, but it was a slow 6'10" guy running off a screen from a slow 7' guy. A jumpshot is the most realistic result and there is almost no chance of a foul or a rebound.

I finally appreciate adding Hedo for his "bad shot shooting" - taking shots after a play fails and the playclock is dwindling. But his shooting should not be an offensive focal point.

Looking at it again (and it's easy to second guess), I would have put DeRozan on the floor in that situation. They've run some great set plays for him already this year, and if nothing else, he's one of the better offensive rebounders on the team. Along with Turkoglu handling the ball, Bosh inside, and Bargnani and Bellinelli trying to get open on ther perimeter and setting picks, I think that's the most difficult lineup to defend on a single play. Having Calderon in there as well doesn't really add anything to the mix.

[Jesse834]

That did take long. Allen Iverson and the Grizzlies have parted away. I gotta believe Allen Iverson career is now over.

[Jesse834]

Thanks to the officials Atlanta wins tonight.

[bluejays]

Well, that was probably the worst second half the Raps had this year so far. Nene, Martin and Carmelo had the paint game going with the same down low dish play, after play, after play and the Raps were too dumb to realize what was going on. JR was shooting it ridiculously which really, the Raps or any team couldn't do anything about. But that inside game was frustrating to watch. I'm surprised Bosh didn't knock a ref in the head after missing so many calls. The non-shooting foul call was completely bogus and it made me want to punch the TV. Jose played uninspired the whole game, just like his season for the most part. Annoying game all around.

[octothorp]

Yeah, Triano needs to throw a chair, get ejected, and lip off in the media about how Bosh doesn't get the calls that other star players in the league get.

I didn't watch most of the first half last night, but I saw the late third quarter and early fourth where things started to break down. Is there any play in basketball that's more frustrating than seeing your team get beat for a fast break after a made basket?

Pops Mensa-Bonsu is back with the Raps; I like his toughness, but I'm worried that it means that Evans is still not close to returning and Pops is being brought in for PF depth; either way, I can't imagine him getting many minutes.

[octothorp]

Another awful start, and something that Triano needs to change. But I can live with the effort they gave today; they matched Utah in the second and completely out hustled them in the third despite being obviously exhausted, just failed to knock down the open jumpers that they earned with the turnovers and offensive rebounds. The frustrating part was seeing the Raps get burned by a low feed setup very similar to what Denver was doing last night.

[Ziggy Lidstrom]

Originally Posted by octothorp

Another awful start, and something that Triano needs to change. But I can live with the effort they gave today; they matched Utah in the second and completely out hustled them in the third despite being obviously exhausted, just failed to knock down the open jumpers that they earned with the turnovers and offensive rebounds. The frustrating part was seeing the Raps get burned by a low feed setup very similar to what Denver was doing last night.

I have to disagree with the part of you living with the performance based on a couple o' things. Perhaps it's just me or I have lost touch with the currents of the board but I just despised the way they played tonight. Too many times have I seen the Raptors make a nice run in the second or third only to be trumped in the fourth quarter. Aside from the recent victory over the clippers, I have seen very little in this team to inspire illusions of success.

Octo, I appreciate that you never said you enjoyed the effort as much as you can live with it. Yet, the things you highlighted as keys to the failure have plagued this team since oak and Davis have left. I think the team needs to go in a new direction and it starts with the performance tonight and bosh. You all say, "well what about bosh's huge double double, zigg?", well I rebut," how many of those buckets were jump shots when the going was easy?". The only player I say who is a regular starter that actually looked like they gave a was Bargs. The other pizan looked good off the bench respectively, yet bargs was banging. He didn't get the team the def rebounds that good teams seem to consistently wrangle, but I attribute that to a team that for the life of me, won't box out. Bargs, had an unheralded, but equally as impressive double double as bosh but for other merits. Fundamentals, aside I think we trade bosh. The americans want their olympian, so give 'em up. But, in what type of deal? I say we try to get another top 3-5 pick to team with our eventual lottery or mid 15 pick to reinforce bargs.

BC, has created this team off throw aways and a soft big man that the old regime developed. He bailed on TJ for Nose No D Calderon, tonight Dwilliams and the rookie maynor gave him fits: stamina or skill, he looked week last night as well. And what about last night? A nightmare of a game against a contender. BC we want a contender. So, let's Give him a crack at a talented draft pool with a couple of higher picks and hopefully we get a big that understands what being a big is all about. De Ro looks like a project when compared to all the young stud lottery picks that have come in and excelled over the years: picks at 9, de ro, Paul pierce and shawn marion.

Now easy all you bosh crushers, I loved what he has done when he had little pressure on him and have cringed at all the increasing body armour his knees have acquired over the past two years, but I can't look past what type of team they have become/remained: a soft, jump shooting team. Did you see turkey glue flopping around like a turkish beggar gypsie pleading for respect from the refs(who are obviously pro-american but that's another issue?).

To be fair, I know it was the tail end of a back to back in the first western road trip, but I can't overlook the instincts that the players exhibit when they are fatigued: jump shooters. At least you can get a lot for bosh now while Bargs' contract is conducive to similar contracts. I like jack off the bench and Turkey is a fixture for the duration or until he becomes a commodity as a tradable contract when his playing days are behind him. De Ro is a project. Jose is a defensive liability and will never be a starting one on a good team.

ps, do those who disagree think that ivaroni is happy knowing his secret weapon evans is yet to be unleashed?

pps, I don't post much anymore because you are all so bright and leave little room to improve on a high standard, so I stick to where the living is lean.

Cole's notes: Trade bosh, we will never compete with the west or the better teams in the east until we have a legit NBa team and not Maccaabi Tel Aviv west. And you can only use the back to back excuse for one blowout not two.