Building a new home / Quick Possession

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by jeffh

Pm'd

Can you please PM me what you PM'd him?

[TurdFerguson]

We're building with them right now. For build quality I can't stay much yet but our "research" didn't make us think they were much better/worse then the alternatives in the neighbourhood. Really, all the trades jump around and the quality of house seems to be based pretty heavily on the super you get. I will say that they are slow...we've had a good sales and design process so far but we stroked our cheque in late January and they just poured foundation yesterday..so we're looking at feb/march possession which is a 13/14 month build - pretty long compared to many builders but the building market is also nuts right now (as a result we're up 100k since January) so...

Anyway, PM me if you want to chat more.

[FFR]

Originally Posted by jharp

Has anyone built with Sabal recently? Thinking about using them, but like every other builder out there, there are so many horror stories from people who are furious. I am sure that there are 10 good stories for every bad one.

If anyone has good or bad experience it would be appreciated.

We built with Sabal and took possession in March. We had a fairly good experience with the purchase and construction and have only had minor issues since we moved in. And they have been great about fixing them. Build quality seems to be good - but we have only been in for a few months. Our build time from first deposit to possession date was
8 months.

What we are having frustrations with is getting clears to do our landscaping. It took forever to get our final grade and now we can't get or certificate to start laying our sod etc. it's been a pain to get answers about the delay and get the whole process moving.

Overall a good experience for us. That being said - neighbours of ours who bought with sabal and moved in after us have had some major issues with their basement leaking. It's being dealt with but I would imagine their opinion of sabal is a lot different than mine.

PM me if you have any specific questions.

[jharp]

Thanks very much for the feedback. It is nice to get some balanced opinions rather than people just complaining when things go poorly.

If I move forward I will post my experiences as well.

[stampsx2]

I think asking people about their opinion on a builder is a lot like asking them which movies are good. Depends on the person and how they see it.

A friend who built a house showed me all the problems he had, which to me really nothing. A few tiny knicks in the hardwood which can only seen in certain sunlight. Major problems like crooked windows, foundation cracks i can understand.

[Calgary14]

I have found the best way to get a good idea on what a specific builder is like is to talk to the trades. After we bought our current home we asked the trades people (while in the process of building you can check out the work as its being done) what the company was like compared to other builders and how the quality compared overall. They were quite candid and had mainly good things to say about the builder but also stated which builders to avoid (something you won't get from a show home). If I was looking at a specific builder I'd consider heading over to the neighbourhood they build in and ask the trades in the area.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

I have found the best way to get a good idea on what a specific builder is like is to talk to the trades. After we bought our current home we asked the trades people (while in the process of building you can check out the work as its being done) what the company was like compared to other builders and how the quality compared overall. They were quite candid and had mainly good things to say about the builder but also stated which builders to avoid (something you won't get from a show home). If I was looking at a specific builder I'd consider heading over to the neighbourhood they build in and ask the trades in the area.

This is a terrible idea. Don't do it.

[rain_e]

Originally Posted by Calgary14

I have found the best way to get a good idea on what a specific builder is like is to talk to the trades. After we bought our current home we asked the trades people (while in the process of building you can check out the work as its being done) what the company was like compared to other builders and how the quality compared overall. They were quite candid and had mainly good things to say about the builder but also stated which builders to avoid (something you won't get from a show home). If I was looking at a specific builder I'd consider heading over to the neighbourhood they build in and ask the trades in the area.

Would the trades not just bad mouth all the builders they don't work for and say the ones they work for have excellent product (since they built it).

[4X4]

Originally Posted by rain_e

Would the trades not just bad mouth all the builders they don't work for and say the ones they work for have excellent product (since they built it).

Maybe. Which could be good or bad.

What I was thinking about was that many of the trades you meet on site are actually sub trades. They're not directly employed by the builder, so if they have a positive or negative opinion of that particular house, it is probably part to do with their contractor and what he's paying them for that house, and whether there's a gravy house down the street that they didn't get and instead are working on this more annoying house.

If you meet a sider at a house and he's having a bitch of a time because the batten guy made this minor mistake, and the framer forgot to put strapping over there, what's he going to tell you? F*** this and f*** that. This house sucks. And since not all houses are equal or equally easy for each trade, you'd get a biased view of the builder because of an annoying elevation on this one particular model of house.

The drywaller might be grouchy because the framer missed a couple pieces of backing, and the finisher might be annoyed at the mudders because they cleaned their trowels in door openings, and everyone is annoyed at the last trade that was in there, but that happens on every house, so does that tell you anything at all?

And of course it's easy to complain because they're only getting $x/ft, when their contractor is scooping a piece of the pie, and the weather sucks, and then to top it all off, Mr and Mrs Homeowner are poking their heads into the house while the trades are trying to work... Be prepared for a big F.O. if you go bugging trades. And be prepared for the Supe to be pretty ticked that you entered without permission or an appointment.

Tradesmen (and women)(rubecube!) are hard working people that don't need to be bugged while they're working. If you have a question, ask the salesperson, and the salesperson will either have an answer, or he/she will ask the supe, and you'll get an answer. You wouldn't want some stranger wandering into your office and asking if you like your employer, would you? Then don't do it to tradesmen.

[stampsx2]

So basically all houses are built with equal quality. I doubt any builder hires contractors that suck. The builder has a reputation to uphold and i'm sure the contractor wants to stay with the builder. If a builder gets too many complaints about the framing of their houses, chances are they'll fire that contractor and find someone else. It all comes down to how picky the buyer is.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

So basically all houses are built with equal quality. I doubt any builder hires contractors that suck. The builder has a reputation to uphold and i'm sure the contractor wants to stay with the builder. If a builder gets too many complaints about the framing of their houses, chances are they'll fire that contractor and find someone else. It all comes down to how picky the buyer is.

Basically you get what you pay for. If you buy a starter home, you're going to get mass produced cabinets and low cost carpet and cheap chinese lights. Some of the things installed in new homes are manufactured elsewhere, and they could have defects. Any decent builder will make sure to correct these kinds of things, but the fact that something isn't perfect doesn't mean the builder cut a corner. Some things get missed, and then fixed when noticed.

Not every tile and every corner of every room is going to be 90.000 degrees. A house is man made. It is not built in a factory by robots with laser guidance. If a wall has a bowed stud causing a bulge, it will get fixed. But if one of the tiles on the backsplash is 1/16 closer to the next tile, it's ridiculous to tear apart the backsplash to fix something that you need a magnifying glass to see, and that is going to be blocked by a toaster anyway.

If you want a custom home that is perfect down to the millimeter, then by all means, hire a custom builder, and pay for it. If you want a nice house for a good price, then go with pretty much any of the reputable builders in the city, and simply pay attention to your build.

No builder wants to rip you off and sell you a piece of crap. That would just mean headaches for them. Builders just want to make money, and sell as many houses as they can, and the best way to sell more houses, is to have happy customers that recommend them to their friends and family.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by 4X4

If you have a question, ask the salesperson, and the salesperson will either have an answer, or he/she will ask the supe, and you'll get an answer.

First of all- thanks for the solid post; and the great perspective.

However with your point I quoted above- I would also mention that not all salespeople are that eager to find the answer. That was the one thing that we found. There were at least three things that were almost deal breakers for us that we were able to have added by asking somebody other than the salesperson. He had told us no; and I almost got the impression he did that just because finding the answer meant more work. However I will agree that the trades likely aren't the right people to ask.

That being said, how do trades feel about the homeowner showing up with coffee, pizza, or beer?

[4X4]

Originally Posted by ken0042

First of all- thanks for the solid post; and the great perspective.

However with your point I quoted above- I would also mention that not all salespeople are that eager to find the answer. That was the one thing that we found. There were at least three things that were almost deal breakers for us that we were able to have added by asking somebody other than the salesperson. He had told us no; and I almost got the impression he did that just because finding the answer meant more work. However I will agree that the trades likely aren't the right people to ask.

Unfortunately, not everyone does their job 100%, all the time. This is part of what I meant when I said to pay attention to your build. Simple stuff like getting TV backing put in your living room is often accomplished by being cool when you meet the supe, and just asking for it. Depending on who your builder is, there is always a different process for customer relations. Some builders do one meeting at the beginning of the build where they go over blueprints, then you get a couple site visits with the salesperson during the build. Other places will give you a walkthrough after rough ins, and you get a chance to see stuff and ask questions. I know some people are just unpleasant, but generally speaking, if you treat people the way you would like to be treated, you get a lot further. Of course, you are the buyer, and you should get what you pay for. If you think you're getting ignored because you're too nice, then push back.

Originally Posted by ken0042

That being said, how do trades feel about the homeowner showing up with coffee, pizza, or beer?

I wouldn't do that. Nice gesture and all, but there's no way you, Mr Homeowner, have any idea how many people are working at your site today. It can vary from 0-10+ on any given day. You might bring too much, or not enough, both of which are a bit awkward. And definitely no beer. Guaranteed that'd be appreciated by whichever guys you gave it to, but your builder would not be happy at all. OH&S regularly cruises around new build areas looking for safety infractions. The last thing a builder wants is alcohol on site. A crooked wall can be fixed, but sewing a finger back on isn't as easy.