Obama cancels abstinence education programs, and riles up everyone

[gonzo29]

In European countries where safe sex is taught rather than abstinence, you see significantly lower STD and pregnancy rates in teens. Glad to see the Obama administration understands this.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by gonzo29

In European countries where safe sex is taught rather than abstinence, you see significantly lower STD and pregnancy rates in teens. Glad to see the Obama administration understands this.

Why can't you teach it all together? Abstinence, monogamy and condoms. Teaching safe sex alone actually seems to add to the problem.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by peter12

Why can't you teach it all together? Abstinence, monogamy and condoms. Teaching safe sex alone actually seems to add to the problem.

Thats the key, all together, being honest with the kids and giving them all the information they need you'll get the best results.

The problem with Abstinence only is it is dishonest about condoms/birth control and presses one solution.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Thor

Thats the key, all together, being honest with the kids and giving them all the information they need you'll get the best results.

The problem with Abstinence only is it is dishonest about condoms/birth control and presses one solution.

Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's the schools' business to teach kids a moral framework, that's up to families.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's the schools' business to teach kids a moral framework, that's up to families.

True, but really like the saying "it takes a village to raise a child" and thats what schools do, even if a teacher doesn't do it, the other children do.

Its like immunization, the more kids you inject with honest, real, useful information on abstinence, birth control, etc.. The safer that village becomes.

I hope that we are beyond thinking abstinence only education works, because its an abysmal failure.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Thor

True, but really like the saying "it takes a village to raise a child" and thats what schools do, even if a teacher doesn't do it, the other children do.

Its like immunization, the more kids you inject with honest, real, useful information on abstinence, birth control, etc.. The safer that village becomes.

I hope that we are beyond thinking abstinence only education works, because its an abysmal failure.

I think the village means the community more-so, not state institutions. I agree the current family unit, while being very important, is probably not the source of all good in a society.

The problem I have with schools right now is the absolute poor quality of many teachers, even the well-meaning ones are not suited, intellectually or temperamentally, to be good stewards of a child's education.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by peter12

I think the village means the community more-so, not state institutions. I agree the current family unit, while being very important, is probably not the source of all good in a society.

The problem I have with schools right now is the absolute poor quality of many teachers, even the well-meaning ones are not suited, intellectually or temperamentally, to be good stewards of a child's education.

You get what you pay for.

Until teachers are paid more than a McDonald's manager the best and the brightest will continue to swing wide in order to avoid education as a vocation.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

You get what you pay for.

Until teachers are paid more than a McDonald's manager the best and the brightest will continue to swing wide in order to avoid education as a vocation.

I think it's a sad sign of society when our "best and brightest" are going to get MBAs instead of passing on their wisdom to the young.

Just me.

Jeez, look at me, the gloomy conservative.

[Thor]

Oh I agree, we pay the people we rely need more of like scientists, researchers, teachers, cops, etc.. way too little.

While we celebrate bankers, investment brokers, and all the people who would sell their souls for money, while the people who benefit our society get crap.

I do think though with the banking/finance system collapse of the last year people are starting to figure out they are not the people who should determine the future of our planet, because if it were up to them profit is better than survival.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Thor

Oh I agree, we pay the people we rely need more of like scientists, researchers, teachers, cops, etc.. way too little.

While we celebrate bankers, investment brokers, and all the people who would sell their souls for money, while the people who benefit our society get crap.

I do think though with the banking/finance system collapse of the last year people are starting to figure out they are not the people who should determine the future of our planet, because if it were up to them profit is better than survival.

Why does the common good have to be judged by its utility? You need to make a living, but there is immense virtue to being a teacher. We don't hold that value at all.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by peter12

Yeah, I agree. I don't think it's the schools' business to teach kids a moral framework, that's up to families.

I think it would be possible to teach disinterested absitinence. You simply present the technique, and the positives and the negatives of each technique. You don't have introduce any morality into it. You can just be honest and factual.

Your class would look like abstinence is 100% effective
Condomes are XXX % effective
Birth Control is XXX % effective.
Oral sex will prevent pregnacy but can still transmit disease.
If guys have lots of sex there studs but if girls due there sluts

A school doesn't have to present one as better then the other merely present abstinence (at least until out of highschool) as a legitamate alternative. If you don't present it as an option you furthur the all my friends are doing it argument.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Thor

Thats the key, all together, being honest with the kids and giving them all the information they need you'll get the best results.

The problem with Abstinence only is it is dishonest about condoms/birth control and presses one solution.

I think a bigger problem is the influence, or non-influence parents have.

It all starts at home.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by GGG

I think it would be possible to teach disinterested absitinence. You simply present the technique, and the positives and the negatives of each technique. You don't have introduce any morality into it. You can just be honest and factual.

Your class would look like abstinence is 100% effective
Condomes are XXX % effective
Birth Control is XXX % effective.
Oral sex will prevent pregnacy but can still transmit disease.
If guys have lots of sex there studs but if girls due there sluts

A school doesn't have to present one as better then the other merely present abstinence (at least until out of highschool) as a legitamate alternative. If you don't present it as an option you furthur the all my friends are doing it argument.

Good points all around.

A program in school should only be pointing out the facts, how it all works....and what is involved.

If kids are involved sexually, they need to talk to a parent, guardian, doctor, whatever and make sure they're staying protected.

The school gives them the education they need....kid goes to his doctor and asks about birth control.

Its like teaching someone about blood pressure issues. Only AFTER they know about the risks involved with having a high blood pressure will they go to their doctor and make sure they're being 'protected.'

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Azure

I think a bigger problem is the influence, or non-influence parents have.

It all starts at home.

What you teach at home is going to represent about 20% of who they are. If that.

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by pepper24

Wow, that's brutal. This is in Canada or Iran?

Las Vegas actually . Only 5 years ago.

[WesternCanadaKing]

Originally Posted by Kipper is King

Or like saying "Since I married you and I want to spend the rest of my life with you, you're the one I love enough to have sex with." In otherwords, that your spouse is special to you, and you won't have sex with just anyone.

Morals!

Well... I guess they could've said it that way... but they preferred the shoe theory apparently.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by WesternCanadaKing

Well... I guess they could've said it that way... but they preferred the shoe theory apparently.

I don't know about you, but I prefer my shoes after they've been broken in.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by Azure

The school gives them the education they need....kid goes to his doctor and asks about birth control.

Not going to happen.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by Bagor

Not going to happen.

I remember in grade 7 we had a 'anonymous' question day, where you could write a question and drop it in a box in our class, can't recall the name but it was a class on sexuality and a few other topics.

Anyhow, in that 1 60 min class, I learned more about sex than I had learned the previous many years.

The key is kids are curious, they need honest answers.

Information is the absolute best answer to our kids, same with the drug war, we keep lying to them and they find out we're lying it gives them reason to doubt all of what we say about drugs even the more dangerous ones.

Its insulting we don't give our kids the truth, they should at least have that and then if they screw up we can't blame ourselves for not informing them.

[Bagor]

^ I'm not disagreeing with that, moreso with the suggestion they're going to follow it up with a Drs appointment.