Central Alberta man faces charges for shooting a theif

[stang]

I dunno about cases like this.... Sure he maybe took it too far in hunting the guy down, but the guy is a damned thief! I wouldn't be too sad if he got injured more even. Teach him a lesson before he comes and robs me because the courts aren't gonna teach him anything.

[CaptainCrunch]

The guy was a thief, but the home owner took things too far by not only shooting twice but blasting the guy in the back as he was trying to flee.

Canada is not a nation of vigilantes. There was no doubt that the guy was guilty of a crime, that in some cases could have turned out to be worse then a simple break and enter, and maybe the judge should have shown a bit of compassion and understanding in his sentence, but we can't encourage people from blasting people with shotguns.

If there would have been a threat of harm, then by all means blast away. But in this case there was really no threat, and the idiot was fleeing for his life.

[stang]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

If there would have been a threat of harm, then by all means blast away. But in this case there was really no threat, and the idiot was fleeing for his life.

I may be a little biased but I think the potential of a shotgun blast to the face may be a good deterent to not steal ####.

Let me tell you a story about a guy I went to school with.

Growing up he was a badass, in trouble in school doing some minor stuff. Grows up, steals a couple cars and ATV's. Gets slaps on the wrist.

Robs a store in Edmonton. Gets a couple months in the slammer, and is out on parole. While on parole he goes on a robbing spree and hits 3 stores in 3 days. The 3rd store he robs he chokes the lady running the store, chokes her and takes her in the back and ties her up for the $500 in the register.

That was my wife.

He gets 3 years in jail including time spent for his crime spree. My wife is traumatized to the point that we have to close our store (was just opened) and she gets anxiety standing in line at the grocery store where people are behind her. Also it was just a fluke that my then 3 year old daughter (now 4.5) wasn't there with my wife.

Maybe some buckshot would have made this guy think twice about a life of crime, before he tore my wifes world apart for $500.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by stang

I may be a little biased but I think the potential of a shotgun blast to the face may be a good deterent to not steal ####.

Let me tell you a story about a guy I went to school with.

Growing up he was a badass, in trouble in school doing some minor stuff. Grows up, steals a couple cars and ATV's. Gets slaps on the wrist.

Robs a store in Edmonton. Gets a couple months in the slammer, and is out on parole. While on parole he goes on a robbing spree and hits 3 stores in 3 days. The 3rd store he robs he chokes the lady running the store, chokes her and takes her in the back and ties her up for the $500 in the register.

That was my wife.

He gets 3 years in jail including time spent for his crime spree. My wife is traumatized to the point that we have to close our store (was just opened) and she gets anxiety standing in line at the grocery store where people are behind her. Also it was just a fluke that my then 3 year old daughter (now 4.5) wasn't there with my wife.

Maybe some buckshot would have made this guy think twice about a life of crime, before he tore my wifes world apart for $500.

Absolutely none of that is applicable to this discussion. We don't live in a society where vigilante justice is okay.

[stang]

Originally Posted by valo403

Absolutely none of that is applicable to this discussion. We don't live in a society where vigilante justice is okay.

No we live in a society that protects the criminal. If someone comes into my yard (acerage) and tries to steal from me, my only option is to call the police who are 45 min away. Like I said before, the guy maybe took it a little far, but HE wasn't looking for trouble, the thief was, and he found it.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by stang

I may be a little biased but I think the potential of a shotgun blast to the face may be a good deterent to not steal ####.

I guess but it isn't up to the individual citizen in our society to go Batman and shoot a guy for theft.

Let me tell you a story about a guy I went to school with.

Growing up he was a badass, in trouble in school doing some minor stuff. Grows up, steals a couple cars and ATV's. Gets slaps on the wrist.

If you really want to actually get at the root of the matter - look at why he was a badass, stealing cars and ATVs when he was growing up. What was going on at home that would make him want to steal and in general be a drain on society.

Robs a store in Edmonton. Gets a couple months in the slammer, and is out on parole. While on parole he goes on a robbing spree and hits 3 stores in 3 days. The 3rd store he robs he chokes the lady running the store, chokes her and takes her in the back and ties her up for the $500 in the register.

So shooting him is the answer? It sucks that your wife was assaulted, but if you want to look at it objectively, the guy was going to steal, he knew the consequences if he was caught - prison and he didn't change his ways at all. So now you add the possibility of vigilante justice to the situation - so the chances that this example uses a gun in a way to defend himself (in the course of an illegal act mind you) increase accordingly. So now rather than the guy choking your wife - he has the means to shoot your wife, causing more serious damages or worse.

I know this may sound like a way of excusing the guy - but fact is that going around and shooting people who steal your stuff is more likely to result in bad things happening to everyone.

Remember a few years back when Wiebo Ludwig or his son murdered the teenager for joy riding on his property - that is what you get when you have this type of vigilante justice.

He gets 3 years in jail including time spent for his crime spree. My wife is traumatized to the point that we have to close our store (was just opened) and she gets anxiety standing in line at the grocery store where people are behind her. Also it was just a fluke that my then 3 year old daughter (now 4.5) wasn't there with my wife.

Maybe some buckshot would have made this guy think twice about a life of crime, before he tore my wifes world apart for $500.

If the risk of spending three years in prison didn't frighten him - I doubt that anything would have. Some buckshot might have made this guy more likely to use more violent measures in his crime spree.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by stang

No we live in a society that protects the criminal. If someone comes into my yard (acerage) and tries to steal from me, my only option is to call the police who are 45 min away. Like I said before, the guy maybe took it a little far, but HE wasn't looking for trouble, the thief was, and he found it.

You said it yourself, the guy took it too far. It also doesn't change the fact that your story has absolutely nothing to do with this.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by stang

No we live in a society that protects the criminal. If someone comes into my yard (acerage) and tries to steal from me, my only option is to call the police who are 45 min away. Like I said before, the guy maybe took it a little far, but HE wasn't looking for trouble, the thief was, and he found it.

As soon as the guy gave chase, he was looking for trouble. Given he rammed said thief then shot him, I would say that 90 days in jail is a mighty fine example of the farmer being protected by the justice system more than anything else. In any other scenario, the sentence on those convictions would have been described in years, not days.

I will agree in general that we place a few too many protections on criminals, but this is not a good example. Canada is not the United States, thank deity.

[Mean Mr. Mustard]

Originally Posted by stang

No we live in a society that protects the criminal. If someone comes into my yard (acerage) and tries to steal from me, my only option is to call the police who are 45 min away. Like I said before, the guy maybe took it a little far, but HE wasn't looking for trouble, the thief was, and he found it.

He wasn't in any risk to his or his families safety - he got his shotgun, loaded his shotgun, got into his car, chased him down in his car, hit him with his car, shot at him as he was running away, shot at him again after he got up... he may not have been the one who was originally looking for trouble but the normal, nor legal response to someone stealing a material object is to pepper them with birdshot - which can kill someone.

As soon as he went and started chasing after a thief he was looking for trouble.

[stang]

I guess this wasn't the best place to use my example as I do feel the guy went to far, however I feel we need tougher laws on bullspit like this. More power to the victim, and stiffer penalties to the criminals. The fact that we have multiple repeat offenders proves that somethings not working with our system.

I just have no sympathy for someone who has no respect for the law/other people like these thieves did. If the owner didn't come out and shoot him, I bet he would have got away with the theft too.

Edit: Chris Rock has a good quote,

"Jails are so nice they go back twice. They don't have this problem in other countries. Nobody goes to jail in Iran twice because it's hard to snatch another purse if you don't got another hand."

[Sr. Mints]

I thought I posted this last night.

NSFW!

[valo403]

Originally Posted by stang

I guess this wasn't the best place to use my example as I do feel the guy went to far, however I feel we need tougher laws on bullspit like this. More power to the victim, and stiffer penalties to the criminals. The fact that we have multiple repeat offenders proves that somethings not working with our system.

I just have no sympathy for someone who has no respect for the law/other people like these thieves did. If the owner didn't come out and shoot him, I bet he would have got away with the theft too.

Edit: Chris Rock has a good quote,

"Jails are so nice they go back twice. They don't have this problem in other countries. Nobody goes to jail in Iran twice because it's hard to snatch another purse if you don't got another hand."

That's great as a joke, it's idiotic as an actual statement. List of countries by intentional homicide rate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

Southern Africa and Central America are sure known for their luxury jails.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by valo403

That's great as a joke, it's idiotic as an actual statement. List of countries by intentional homicide rate:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._homicide_rate

Southern Africa and Central America are sure known for their luxury jails.

And he could easily throw back Asia (aka mostly China) & the Middle East, which aren't exactly bastions of luxury either.

Both of which are lower than North America...

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaramonLS

And he could easily throw back Asia (aka mostly China) & the Middle East, which aren't exactly bastions of luxury either.

Both of which are lower than North America...

Yeah, he could throw in one outlier but that's what it is, an outlier. Look at that list from top to bottom, the trend isn't difficult to figure out.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by Orange

I'm surprised I haven't seen a thread about this and fear it might be a fata, but I searched for Brian Knight and found nothing.

Maybe it was because you kept searching for theif.

[Azure]

I have a no problem with using lethal force in 'self defence'....especially when you feel your life may be in danger, but I absolutely have a problem when you shoot a guy that is running away in the back.

I don't care what he did.

[Hilch]

Originally Posted by hockeycop

I get it though... Anti-cop... Cute.

Far from it actually. I was just saying if a cop shot someone in the act of a crime he would be a hero, when someone is protecting themselves or their property they are a criminal.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hilch

Far from it actually. I was just saying if a cop shot someone in the act of a crime he would be a hero, when someone is protecting themselves or their property they are a criminal.

It needs to be said again, apparantly. If a cop shot someone in the back as they were running away, in Canada, they would NOT be looked at as a hero. They would be villified by the majority of the public and the media, and they would be charged for the CRIME they commited. I'm really not sure where getting this idea that cops would do what this guy did AND that they would be considered heroic for doing so.

[cal_guy]

Court of Appeal overturns earlier 90-day sentence, grants conditional discharge

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...tv-appeal.html

Seems like at the end the right sentence was handed down, 3 months probation and 50 hours of community service plus the 10-year firearms ban.

[Forever Flames]

I think some people might not be considering that this could be about more than a stolen quad. When you have a criminal on your property taking things, you might feel like your security is being compromised. Your land and your home is typically a place where you feel safe; for some this isn't the case but for most it is. As children we are conditioned to feel safe at home and it carries through life. People do crazy things when they feel their safety is compromised. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the shooting.