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Old 04-01-2009, 12:18 PM   #61
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I am not a hater but do have an opinion. I like my mac. It does what I want and does not break. To say it is compatible if you load this or buy that does not mean it is compatible. ..........
You don't have to be a mechanic to know that you shouldn't put diesel in your car. Is your car incompatible?

Again, the incompatibility exists because you are talking about a more or less proprietary Microsoft file format that has essentially been reversed engineered to work in other applications. Apple supports and promotes a multitude of open standards that offer data portability and ensures compatibility. Microsoft is to slowly embracing these as well and opening up their formats but people have embraced the .doc format as a standard when it isn't. It's incompatible because Microsoft made it that way. Can you open a .pages file in Word? No. Does that make Windows incompatible?

I have nothing against proprietary file formats, just the way they are implemented. PDF for example is Adobe's format but there is no problems in terms compatibility between platforms or data interpretation.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:05 PM   #62
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I have nothing against proprietary file formats, just the way they are implemented. PDF for example is Adobe's format but there is no problems in terms compatibility between platforms or data interpretation.
PDF is actually now an ISO standard document format, so its fully open.

http://www.iso.org/iso/pressrelease.htm?refid=Ref1141

Pretty neat, eh?
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:06 PM   #63
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If you work with or know somebody that works at the UofC you can get microsoft office for mac for $14. Personally I'd still prefer iwork for $75, but if office is what you need then that is an option.
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Old 04-01-2009, 01:08 PM   #64
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I actually find it funny that in one of the responses Llama actually uses this phrase which, I assume is programming or something: "Pages != Word."

I know Pages does not equal Word but I did not think it was redonkulous to think that after all this time Pages would be sure to be able to open a simple Word table.
Yeah, sorry, != stands for "not equal". I occasionally slip into programmer mode :P

But to the point... It is ridiculous to expect a third party application to open a competitors file format 100% correctly. Especially when the competitor does not release the entirety of the format.

Word files are not an open standard (well, .doc isn't). If you want to open those files, use the proper tool for the job. That's all I'm saying.
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Old 04-01-2009, 04:28 PM   #65
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To be clear, I dislike my PC because it does not work well or consistently, if I actually try to use it. Having said that, I do like the mac but was surprised at the steepness of the learning curve. That is all. I don't want to kill Bill or Steve. I just want to use a computer that does what I need it to do. End rebuttal rant.
And many seasoned PC users are frustrated that being so subject to the masses, PCs are always blamed for being unstable or broken or infected or slow, etc. when ultimately, it is often the user's doing in the first place. This is a problem when you are the most popular and numerous platform. Also, PC makers are forced to make hardware and software that works with an untold combination of different other off the shelf hardware and software combinations for all sorts of people and keep it all compatible. Nonetheless, today's Macs are basically off the shelf PC hardware running Mac OS. Software is more focused and hardware choices are standardized. But still, my point is that when Windows breaks, it's often because of the user even if the OS can be faulted for not being intuitive or providing safeguards against users unknowingly borking their own systems slowly to death.

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On the topic of virii, I have been intrigued by the fact that Mac has not been subject to a major virus attack, given the level of hatred for them in the PC community. I would have expected several virus authors to attack them just to wipe the smug little grin of the macboys faces. I don't pretend to understand the entire thing, or even a small part of the thing, but thought that there is enough hate to fuel a virus based on hate alone and not economic gain. These threads support that there is a high level of hate.
The big and serious viruses have nothing to do with hate. They have everything to do with money. Their goal is also not damage, but rather theft and control. Virus programmers aren't concerned with silly feuds but make their viruses to make money by amassing networks of zombie computers to do their dirty work. PCs happen to have the largest user base at about 91% of worldwide computers! Macs are only at 8% and in niche areas. It's not significant enough.

But you're right, a lot of smaller virus/malware is written purely for fun and for egos. Macs are safer here not because of marketshare but because when OSX came out, they decided to screw compatibility and just move everyone over to a brand new modern platform based on BSD Unix. This is open source and has been worked on and inspected and tweaked by users for years so it is a great shape. Windows however, is closed platform, reliant on internal microsoft checking and patching...and basically broken for years as it's still stuck in Win32 because of the need for Microsoft OS's and PCs to maintain compatibility and legacy support. If Microsoft had said with WinXP or Vista that they were going to dump compatibility or legacy support for older software and hardware, they'd be screwed.

Last edited by Hack&Lube; 04-01-2009 at 04:33 PM.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:49 PM   #66
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Yeah, sorry, != stands for "not equal". I occasionally slip into programmer mode :P

But to the point... It is ridiculous to expect a third party application to open a competitors file format 100% correctly. Especially when the competitor does not release the entirety of the format.

Word files are not an open standard (well, .doc isn't). If you want to open those files, use the proper tool for the job. That's all I'm saying.
I understand and agree completely but I am now starting feel like I was sold a bill of goods with mac. It is sold by making it sound like it can in fact do these things that I am finding out it really can't or at least can't without some extra work.

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Old 04-01-2009, 08:52 PM   #67
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You don't have to be a mechanic to know that you shouldn't put diesel in your car. Is your car incompatible?

Again, the incompatibility exists because you are talking about a more or less proprietary Microsoft file format that has essentially been reversed engineered to work in other applications. Apple supports and promotes a multitude of open standards that offer data portability and ensures compatibility. Microsoft is to slowly embracing these as well and opening up their formats but people have embraced the .doc format as a standard when it isn't. It's incompatible because Microsoft made it that way. Can you open a .pages file in Word? No. Does that make Windows incompatible?

I have nothing against proprietary file formats, just the way they are implemented. PDF for example is Adobe's format but there is no problems in terms compatibility between platforms or data interpretation.
I agree and understand your point but when everyone who drives the car says I can put in diesel and gas and ammonia and bleach and the car will run, I feel a little gypped when I find out it is not that way.

I am not trying to say everything should work with everything or even that Mac fans lied to me. I am just saying it does not work as easy as I thought. I accept 100% responsibility for that but am still disappointed.
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Old 04-01-2009, 08:56 PM   #68
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If you work with or know somebody that works at the UofC you can get microsoft office for mac for $14. Personally I'd still prefer iwork for $75, but if office is what you need then that is an option.
Thanks. My wife works at MRC so I am sure we could get it. I don't really think I need it. I can get what I need with iWork but appreciate the suggestion.

It was more an example of trying to explain to my wife over the phone how to do it.
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Old 04-02-2009, 04:46 PM   #69
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I understand and agree completely but I am now starting feel like I was sold a bill of goods with mac. It is sold by making it sound like it can in fact do these things that I am finding out it really can't or at least can't without some extra work.

Can't blame you for hating Apple's marketing... it is disingenuous at best. And yet they still have legions of fan bois routinely chanting the mantra.

I personally use iWork and it handles 90% of the documents I need to work with on a daily basis. For the other 10% I usually just request a PDF copy to see the proper formatting. It works for me, but for most traditional home users, iWork is not a valid substitute for Office -- and it's stupid that it's sold that way.
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