have you ever had a dui, or been close?

[flip]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

my father was killed in a drunk driving accident when I was two years old.

I don't have a lot of time for excuses or people who drive while impaired. It seems to be more of a problem with the older generation than younger, except for pure meathead wannabe jocks who still can't get over the glory days of years gone by. Still though, I think the education is working and at least our generation is aware of the risks and consequences.

The other thing that gets me is when you're over at a buddy's house and his old man stumbles in laughing and joking clearly pissed out of his tree after having driven. That one always disgusted me the most.

It does seem that way, because drunk driving used to be ok, now it isn't. That being said I know a lot of people who drive drunk regularly, regardless of age, from my buddies grandma who gets falling down drunk then drives home after christmas dinner to my friends who get wasted then drive home from the bar, or worse after work.

Reminds me of a funny story.

My grandpa was a drunk for most of his life. In the early 70s when my dad was about 10-13 my grandpa was driving my dad and himself home but he was so drunk he couldn't operate the car. He was passing out, falling over all kinds of stuff. So my dad pushes him out of the way takes control and starts driving.

About half way home (this was in Weyburn SASK IIRC) a cop pulls my dad over and informs him that he can't drive because he doesn't have his license. My grandpa gets out of the passenger side, falls over a few times on his way to the driver's side, where the cop proceeds to let him drive home drunk off his ass because having my teenage dad drive home without his drivers license would be too dangerous.

[Drunk Skunk]

Originally Posted by Ice

I totally agree. If you know you're going to be out drinking is it that difficult to find someone who isn't to make sure people who shouldn't be driving don't drive? The designated driver thing is really so easy and does save lives.

That said, my brother got a DUI, he was on his way home from my other brother's wedding. He refused the breathalizer because he doesn't trust them. In California, that means your license is automatically suspended for one year. He was arrested, booked, released. It cost him about 5000.00 for his attorney, plus all his fines, bail and court costs and he couldn't drive for a year. In California, not being able to drive is very, very inconvenient. After his year was up, he went to the DMV to get his license reinstated and found out they never actually suspended it. Somehow it slipped through the cracks and then too much time had passed to suspend it. He could've been driving the whole time. (I found it funnier than he did) Now his car insurance is way more expensive than a teenagers.

He learned his lesson. He will never drive after drinking again. He and his friends take turns being the designated non-drinker so none of them go through what my brother did...and considering what can happen to people who drink and drive, my brother, and other innocent people on the road, got off lucky.

The last time I read anything on the subject, the average cost, of a lifetime, for the first DUI is somewhere between $20,000 and $30,000.

[ken0042]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I don't have a lot of time for excuses or people who drive while impaired.

First off, I am sorry for your loss. I can't imagine how that must have been.

I just want to say that while some of us in this thread could be considered as making excuses, more than anything I think what we are trying to do is explain how bad decisions were made in the past, what let to those bad decisions, and what could have been done to avoid them.

My story about not being able to take Transit home- as it turns out whoever I talked to at CT was wrong. Not only were there additional trains that night, but I could have also taken the bus to the train instead of getting a lift to the station.

As it stands today, my own lesson from that night is that I don't go to New Year's parties anymore; unless its within walking distance of home. I even went so far as to buy my house close enough to my drinking buddies so that we can always walk 20 minutes home.

But if we as a society want to end drunk driving, there needs to be more effort made to take away peoples' excuses. Get more taxis on the road. Get transit running all night; at least the trains- possibly even the BRTs. My issue with organizations like MADD is they try to put the onus solely on the drunk drivers. Sure- it was their own choice. But make it so that there are realistic options out there.

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who drink and get behind the wheel of their car and drive, even if they fortunately don't cause an accident. I've seen too many cases where we have repeat offenders, people who get into accidents and then peel off leaving the victim in pain or worse yet to drive. We just recently saw a DUI case where the driver killed a girl and got a $800.00 fine.

This isn't a crime of passion, where it just happens, it isn't a mistake or a opps sorry moment to me. You make the decision to get behind the wheel, you have time to change your mind before you turn that key and put it into gear. You have the opportunity before you go out to make plans not to drive. A cab not being available isn't an excuse, or the buses being shot down isn't an excuse to do this. I think the whole criminal code needs to be revamped and there needs to be serious penalties put into place beyond financial.

1) If your under the age of 18 and you blow over, sorry its a 5 year suspension of your license, driving is a privileged, not a right, oh and your car is seized and auctioned off with the proceeds going to victims of crime groups. oh and 100 hours of community service

2) If your over the age of 18 and you get caught, its a 1 year suspension for the first offense, any other offenses for the rest of your life result in a permanent ban, and your vehicle seized and auctioned off. 250 hours of community services

3) If your in an accident where fortunately no one is hurt, its a 30 day prison terms, fines equivalent to the damage caused in the accident, a 10 year suspension of your license, and your vehicle seized and auctioned off with proceeds going towards damages caused.

4) If your in an accident and you injure someone, then its a assualt causing bodily harm charge, minimum of 5 years in jail, permanent suspension of your license, your vehicle seized with the proceeds going towards the victim and victim groups.

5) If you kill someone, its murder 1, Mandatory 25 years in prison with a chance for parole after 10 years, a permanent suspension of your license, one year of community service while your in prison cleaning trash cans, your vehicle seized and auctioned off.

6) If your caught driving with a suspended license, your going to jail for 5 years, your paying a 1 million dollar fine, your vehicle is auctioned off and your license is suspended. Your place of employment must also be notified in all of the above punishments as well.

I have zero sympathy for drunk drivers. I've seen how destructive they can be.

[Phanuthier]

^ Should it be the same for talking on your cell/texting while driving?

(I don't really sympathize with them either, just wanted to note that.)

[burn_this_city]

I just want to clarify that I don't drink and drive. In my post earlier I was merely saying it's going to continue to prevail in society so long as people can still drive to bars. Too many people just dont give a sh*t and will jump in their car regardless of how drunk they are..
My friend was almost killed by our other friend who was driving them home from a party. He was hammered and drove too fast around an icy corner. The other guy lost his license and once he got it back started driving drunk again. It's pretty sad but some people just don't get it.

[GreenLantern]

I agree with harsh penalties, first or second time. Since I made the choice not to drink, even after one drink, all of those years ago I have always taken special care to make sure I am not in a situation where I don't have a safe way home.

Some nights it means that I don't get to go meet my hockey buds at the bar for a few drinks, but I am Ok with that. Because I would rather stay home than be a murderer.

You need to take responsibility and make those arrangements before hand, never put yourself in a situation where you can drink and drive. When I got my second DUI it was after a big BBQ on campus, I came there sober planning to leave my car over night, but of course once booze was in my system I chose to drive home. I made that choice, not the booze, I left myself in a situation where that option was open. I lacked willpower and I made the wrong move, and I got lucky.. but at least I learnt from it.

If you lack the willpower to tell yourself you can't drive, then give your keys to a friend, or throw them in the river, or lock them in your car on purpose (you have to come back the next day anyway, bring a spare set).

[moon]

I say it every time the issue comes up but I really don't think that harsher penalties are going to do much to stop drinking and driving. They may be warranted because people belief that the offenders deserve the punishment but as a deterent I am not sure how effective it will be.

Right now having a DUI can be very damaging to many careers, the punishment (although seeming light to many) is very hard on offenders as well depending on their situation and despite the risk of killing someone (which is surely worse than any punishment proposed) people still drink and drive all the time.

In my view if people are willing to risk others and their own lives is the risk of spending 30 days in jail going to make them stop?

My main rant about DUI always is that there really is a very little chance that you are going to get caught. That is the main thing that I have heard from people that I know that did it, the main observation that I have seen driving home from work every fri/sat at 1-2 am and even the feeling I had after a few drinks when I used to go out.

The punishments can be as harsh as you want but if I am not going to get caught, and on the slight chance I am have no trouble beating the charges, then why would I be concerned at all about the possible consequences?

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by moon

I say it every time the issue comes up but I really don't think that harsher penalties are going to do much to stop drinking and driving. They may be warranted because people belief that the offenders deserve the punishment but as a deterent I am not sure how effective it will be.

Right now having a DUI can be very damaging to many careers, the punishment (although seeming light to many) is very hard on offenders as well depending on their situation and despite the risk of killing someone (which is surely worse than any punishment proposed) people still drink and drive all the time.

In my view if people are willing to risk others and their own lives is the risk of spending 30 days in jail going to make them stop?

My main rant about DUI always is that there really is a very little chance that you are going to get caught. That is the main thing that I have heard from people that I know that did it, the main observation that I have seen driving home from work every fri/sat at 1-2 am and even the feeling I had after a few drinks when I used to go out.

The punishments can be as harsh as you want but if I am not going to get caught, and on the slight chance I am have no trouble beating the charges, then why would I be concerned at all about the possible consequences?

Agreed, I don't see the forward thinking mentality here. It seems as though fines are already tough as it is, if its tougher, do you deter the problem? We should be seeking a solution to the problem, not trying to find what sounds the toughest and big talk punishment to the problem. i.e. seizing the car and auctioning it off, why??? That just sounds odd.

Also, if people mentality are that there is a low % of them getting caught, they're aiming for a (2) caught, no accident as if they thought they'd get into an accident anyways. From whatever the punishment is now to this new one, I don't see how this fixes the problem. Again, the punishment just sounds like alot of talk.

All in all, just not a very forward thinking proposal IMO. I much prefer totf, ken et al's suggestion to rectify the problem.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Agreed, I don't see the forward thinking mentality here. It seems as though fines are already tough as it is, if its tougher, do you deter the problem? We should be seeking a solution to the problem, not trying to find what sounds the toughest and big talk punishment to the problem. i.e. seizing the car and auctioning it off, why??? That just sounds odd.

Disagree strongly. The fines and punishment we have now aren't near enough of a deterent. I'm willing to bet if a persons license is taken away for life you'd have people thinking long and hard before they get behind the wheel drunk.

As for auctioning off the vehicle, it makes perfect sense to me. Think of the court costs and police man hours involved in processing a DUI. Then there's the family i noted who could have used some of that money to pay for the funeral costs of thier daughter killed by a drunk driver.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Dion

Disagree strongly. The fines and punishment we have now aren't near enough of a deterent. I'm willing to bet if a persons license is taken away for life you'd have people thinking long and hard before they get behind the wheel drunk.

As for auctioning off the vehicle, it makes perfect sense to me. Think of the court costs and police man hours involved in processing a DUI. Then there's the family i noted who could have used some of that money to pay for the funeral costs of thier daughter killed by a drunk driver.

The current fines/punishment are not enough. The drunk driver who hit me was immediately arrested at the scene. It was his 9th arrest, he had only been out of jail for less than 60 days serving time for his last DUI conviction. His license was suspended but he didn't care, he put his truck in his girlfriends name to get it registered and drove drunk without a license. On that day he hit three cars and three high school students crossing the street walking home from school. In all he sent seven of us to the hospital. Even after all that the maximum sentence he could receive is four years because he didn't kill anyone. Give him time, he will. He only served 18 months of his 4 year sentence. I'm sure he's still out there drunk driving unless his 10th arrest interupts his life again.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Dion

Disagree strongly. The fines and punishment we have now aren't near enough of a deterent. I'm willing to bet if a persons license is taken away for life you'd have people thinking long and hard before they get behind the wheel drunk.

So the fact they could kill themselves and others won't stop them, but losing their license for life will?

People who choose to drink and drive are not thinking rationally enough to stop and think that they could lose their license. If they were thinking that rationally/far ahead they wouldn't get into their cars no matter what the punishment was.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Ice

The current fines/punishment are not enough. The drunk driver who hit me was immediately arrested at the scene. It was his 9th arrest, he had only been out of jail for less than 60 days serving time for his last DUI conviction. His license was suspended but he didn't care, he put his truck in his girlfriends name to get it registered and drove drunk without a license. On that day he hit three cars and three high school students crossing the street walking home from school. Even after all that the maximum sentence he could receive is four years because he didn't kill anyone. Give him time, he will. He only served 18 months of his 4 year sentence. I'm sure he's still out there drunk driving unless his 10th arrest interupts his life again.

Wow, guess I was totally wrong there. I just went off of what the commercials and everything said about how bad it was if you were caught with a DUI. None the less, I don't see CC's proposal being a solution in any way, shape or form. For whatever $ comes from auctioning off the car probably won't even cover the costs for appeals to the courts and the court costs crazy sentences that DD's and their lawyers will inevitably appeal. I still think the proposal is all talk, but not forward thinking approach to solving the problem. I would honestly rather see the problem solved then to salivate at how much we can punish the future guilty DDers.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

Wow, guess I was totally wrong there. I just went off of what the commercials and everything said about how bad it was if you were caught with a DUI. None the less, I don't see CC's proposal being a solution in any way, shape or form. For whatever $ comes from auctioning off the car probably won't even cover the costs for appeals to the courts and the court costs crazy sentences that DD's and their lawyers will inevitably appeal. I still think the proposal is all talk, but not forward thinking approach to solving the problem. I would honestly rather see the problem solved then to salivate at how much we can punish the future guilty DDers.

I think they need to find a way to give these drunk drivers a punishment that affects them for the rest of their life. We hear about the numbers of people killed by drunk drivers because that's the marquee number. While I count my blessings every day that I wasn't killed that day, it really pisses me off that Manuel Raul Amavisca walked away that day with no injuries but me and the other people he took out that day will be dealing with the affects of his "mistake" for the rest of our lives. Considering what could've happened we all got off pretty easy injury-wise, it could've been way worse, but I know that I'm still dealing with my injuries from an accident in 1994 yet he's probably fine.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern

.

Some nights it means that I don't get to go meet my hockey buds at the bar for a few drinks, but I am Ok with that. Because I would rather stay home than be a murderer.

I don't want to be!...........a murderer.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ice

The current fines/punishment are not enough. The drunk driver who hit me was immediately arrested at the scene. It was his 9th arrest, he had only been out of jail for less than 60 days serving time for his last DUI conviction. His license was suspended but he didn't care, he put his truck in his girlfriends name to get it registered and drove drunk without a license. On that day he hit three cars and three high school students crossing the street walking home from school. In all he sent seven of us to the hospital. Even after all that the maximum sentence he could receive is four years because he didn't kill anyone. Give him time, he will. He only served 18 months of his 4 year sentence. I'm sure he's still out there drunk driving unless his 10th arrest interupts his life again.

Originally Posted by Ice

I think they need to find a way to give these drunk drivers a punishment that affects them for the rest of their life. We hear about the numbers of people killed by drunk drivers because that's the marquee number. While I count my blessings every day that I wasn't killed that day, it really pisses me off that Manuel Raul Amavisca walked away that day with no injuries but me and the other people he took out that day will be dealing with the affects of his "mistake" for the rest of our lives. Considering what could've happened we all got off pretty easy injury-wise, it could've been way worse, but I know that I'm still dealing with my injuries from an accident in 1994 yet he's probably fine.

I think a lot of the problem as well is not so much the punishments but the way they are handed out. It seems way too often people with DUI's are able to plea (in the states) and bargain the charges down so that they end up without facing the full punishment that they should.

Also as shown in the example above many of these people will drive whether they have a suspended license or not.

Punishments of throwing repeat offenders in jail for a long time may work in getting them off the street so that they can't repeat the offense but as a deterent themselves they don't seem like they work now no matter what the cost to the driver and even if they were strong as can be there is no evidence that they would stop drunks.

I have no problem with upping the punishments as I think it is deserved but lets not pretend as though it will do much to stop DUI's.

[Ice]

Originally Posted by moon

I have no problem with upping the punishments as I think it is deserved but lets not pretend as though it will do much to stop DUI's.

I agree with you. I don't think most people convicted of DUI are criminals who need to spend a decade in jail. But honestly, I think a first offense should result in a lengthy suspension and a second offense should make you ineligible to get a drivers license. How many people would risk a second arrest if they knew it meant they could never legally drive again in their lifetime. I think that's a more serious deterrant than jail time. However, in the case of the second drunk who hit me, who'd already been in and out of jail and arrested so many times, I'd like to see him spend some quality time in prison. By driving on a suspended license and never learning to respect the law, I think he's exactly the type of person who will never stop and therefore should be given a very, very lengthy sentence. I'm talking in the range of AT LEAST ten years. He was lucky he didn't kill three 15 year olds that day, thank God he hit me first or they'd be dead.

[CaptainCrunch]

To be clear, in terms of drunk driving, I am all for getting them off of the streets, creating a strong enough incentive not to make the decision to drink and drive, remove the possibility of putting a weapon (licenses and cars) into the hands of people that make a decision to drink and drive.

I'm tired of a society that thinks that's that we have to coddle people so that they make the right decision, there has to be consequences to the decision that these people are are making.

There are far to many cases of repeating drink and drivers, there are far to many stories of people making excuses (I couldn't get a cab, or the trains weren't running)

As for the seizing and selling of vehicles, who cares about the cost of appeals, that should be absorbed by the defendant, not by the public, the money from the seizures, should go to the victims, or go to the police so they can combat these problems. The seizure and auctioning of even 20 or thirty cars would probably pay for more check stops or technology needed to ensure conviction.

People who drink and drive and kill someone are no better then the gang bangers who shoot someone in the streets with a random stream of bullets. People who drink and drive and injure someone are no better then the punks who beat up someone with a baseball bat at a party because they got a funny look. People who drink and drive and cause a random accident are not better then the idiot who street races and causes an accident.

We should start treating them accordingly, or in the Canadian Courts a bit harsher because drinking and driving is voluntary.

[Traditional_Ale]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

I just want to clarify that I don't drink and drive. In my post earlier I was merely saying it's going to continue to prevail in society so long as people can still drive to bars. Too many people just dont give a sh*t and will jump in their car regardless of how drunk they are..
My friend was almost killed by our other friend who was driving them home from a party. He was hammered and drove too fast around an icy corner.

My brother. I have some really horrible pictures I took of him in the hospital...tubes everywhere, his whole face was a giant shiner being held together by thick, eff-off staples. And the brain-trauma was horrible too, but kind of made me laugh when he started raving that Superstore owned the hospital and all "these bitch nurse bitches work for me!"

The other guy lost his license and once he got it back started driving drunk again. It's pretty sad but some people just don't get it.

...just,

You think if I caught him doing it and punched him in the face I would be out of line?

[Dion]

Originally Posted by moon

So the fact they could kill themselves and others won't stop them, but losing their license for life will?

How do you drive if you don't have a license?

People who choose to drink and drive are not thinking rationally enough to stop and think that they could lose their license. If they were thinking that rationally/far ahead they wouldn't get into their cars no matter what the punishment was.

I disagree. People who drink and get behind the wheel know exactly what they are doing. They are taking a calculated gamble on the fact that they think they are sober enough to drive and won't be a danger to themselves and others.