Somali pirates capture oil tanker.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Super-Rye

Uh well as nice as that would be that doesn't really stop anything. Countries need to go in there and crack some skulls and get some form of government installed in these countries or the cycle of violence will continue. :/

I thought we didn't like nation building?

Do you honestly don't think warships blowing speedboats full of pirates to bits won't change anything?

Really, these folks are harmless until they get on a ship...so don't let them.

[Azure]

Okay, after reading a bit about everything that happened, or as much as we are allowed to know, I have to say Obama handled everything very well.

Still think commenting on it would have been a good idea, just to let the public know that its a top priority for his administration, but maybe Obama does that 2 years down the road with a bit more experience.

Either way, this war-mongering, right-wing, Bush-lover is glad the bad guys got killed, and the good guys rescued the captain.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Originally Posted by Azure

Okay, after reading a bit about everything that happened, or as much as we are allowed to know, I have to say Obama handled everything very well.

Still think commenting on it would have been a good idea, just to let the public know that its a top priority for his administration, but maybe Obama does that 2 years down the road with a bit more experience.

Either way, this war-mongering, right-wing, Bush-lover is glad the bad guys got killed, and the good guys rescued the captain.

\
I actually don't mind the low level of discussion about it from Obama. I think it points to confidence. Plus, you don't want these guys to think they are making a bigger impact with this stuff than they really are. Kind of like not feeding a serial killer's ego by panicking the public.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

I thought we didn't like nation building?

Do you honestly don't think warships blowing speedboats full of pirates to bits won't change anything?

Really, these folks are harmless until they get on a ship...so don't let them.

If you make it so its not an easy way to make a living and these pirates will find it tough to recruit if a lot of these dupes don't make it home.

I think they should re-enact 19th century admiralty laws where the Captains of war ships can try these pirates on the spot and hang em from your yardarm, or cut em up and throw em to the sharks.

Like I mentioned before, giving them success factors, ie even negotiating with them will make them bolder.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Displaced Flames fan

There needs to be an international group of warships routinely patrolling the area and eliminating these folks before they do any more damage.

Pretty sure the shipping companies could have their ships move in convoys through the region with miliatary escorts, but they don't because they'd have to wait for the convoys to leave and that would cost them money. They'd rather take the chance that they'd have to pay a ransom. If the pirates become too successful, that may change.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by Iowa_Flames_Fan

Serves him right. I don't care what your circumstances at home are--when you're kidnapping people for ransom, you're not one of the good guys.

I like the way someone put it earlier today. Yes, the pirates are obviously the bad guys.... but when your life is hell it's much easier for an otherwise good person to become a bad guy.

Ethics are a luxury of those that can feed their families.

-=-=-=-=-=-

As for bombing the mansions of the warlords, they have considered selective bombings, but they will kill a lot more innocent people than guilty. They tried that 2 years ago when there were rumours that Fazul Abdullah Mohammed was in Somalia. They bombed sites for 3 days trying to kill him, and they did kill 27 people including women and children. Tony Snow said they believed they killed the terrorist, but he was captured and escaped from Kenyan police last August so he is definitely still alive.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

I like the way someone put it earlier today. Yes, the pirates are obviously the bad guys.... but when your life is hell it's much easier for an otherwise good person to become a bad guy.

Ethics are a luxury of those that can feed their families.

-=-=-=-=-=-

As for bombing the mansions of the warlords, they have considered selective bombings, but they will kill a lot more innocent people than guilty. They tried that 2 years ago when there were rumours that Fazul Abdullah Mohammed was in Somalia. They bombed sites for 3 days trying to kill him, and they did kill 27 people including women and children. Tony Snow said they believed they killed the terrorist, but he was captured and escaped from Kenyan police last August so he is definitely still alive.

Actually if I was running things, I would send special forces troops in to kidnap the Pirate leaders families and then demand ransoms from the Pirates.

Its a trick that the Soviets did when a diplomat was kidnapped in the middle east about 20 years ago. A group of Spetznatz went in and kidnapped the family of the head hostage taker and started sending him body parts until the diplomat was released.

In a lot of ways the old Soviets understood the application of force a lot better then we do.

[Devils'Advocate]

I think for the most part, the people would cheer special forces troops coming and kidnapping the warlords. For many of them, it is a slave-master relationship. Some are brainwashed into believing it is a worker-protector relationship and are thus loyal to the warlord, but most are indentured servants.

The other problem that makes it more complicated is that as soon as someone kills one of the warlords, either someone pops right up to take his place *OR* another warlord sees this as an opportunity to make a power-grab and take over another clan.

So surgical strikes aren't going to help either. So, bombing isn't going to work, surgical strikes isn't going to work.... and nobody, I mean absolutely NOBODY is going to put peacekeepers in here unless they want them all slaughtered. We could back the provisional government, but if any past attempts are an indication, the representatives are either in the pocket of the warlords, or they are dead.

[Barnes]

Originally Posted by SebC

Pretty sure the shipping companies could have their ships move in convoys through the region with miliatary escorts, but they don't because they'd have to wait for the convoys to leave and that would cost them money. They'd rather take the chance that they'd have to pay a ransom. If the pirates become too successful, that may change.

Which military will take responsibility? Most of these ships are registered in Liberia or Panama and they don't have much as far as Navies go. These companies register in all kinds of god forsaken places in order to not have to abide by western maritime laws and now the want an escort? Fight the pirates or go the long way.

For example, a P&O cruise ship who was passing the coast of Somalia on a world cruise and P&O, a British subsidiary of an American company called the British Navy to ask for an escort. They told them to call Bermuda since that's where their ships have been registered. They offloaded all the passengers and most of the crew just after the Suez Canal and flew them to meet the ship where it was safe.

[Barnes]

I didn't realize this was an American flagged ship. The first one to be taken by Pirates since 1815.

[Barnes]

Looks like the French popped a couple of pirates today too.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7996072.stm

[Vulcan]

Everybody is forgetting the good pirates do by combating global warming.

[Cowperson]

Speedboats operating hundreds of miles off shore probably have a mother ship somewhere. . . . . . or some means to travel that distance.

Eliminating the ability to operate at that distance will eliminate the problem.

Go for the supply line.

Problems like this are ultimately self-correcting as the criminals get too greedy and attract an overwhelming response.

Cowperson

[mykalberta]

Somali pirates dont warrant a comment from the President of the United States. They are thugs, and having him comment on them only legitimizes them.

The US handled it properly, hijack all the ships you want, but if they fly a US flag we will frack you up if you mess with us.

[JBR]

The movie will be out by Christmas....

and it will be rated "Aarrrrggghhh!!"

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by JBR

The movie will be out by Christmas....

and it will be rated "Aarrrrggghhh!!"

You Hilarious

[Barnes]

^^ reference?

[CaptainCrunch]

none whatsoever.

It was more for my own inner chuckle

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by mykalberta

The US handled it properly, hijack all the ships you want, but if they fly a US flag we will frack you up if you mess with us.

This is my view on it too. If a Western company wants to register their ships in a tax shelter like Panama, go right ahead, but don't expect naval support if your ships are hijacked by pirates. If there's a positive outcome to be had from this mess, maybe Somali piracy will force shipping companies to avoid tax havens and register their ships in the US, UK, France, etc. Might the cost of insurance/ransom/private security eventually out-weigh the tax savings?

[starseed]

I thought this perspective was interesting:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/johann..._b_155147.html

In 1991, the government of Somalia - in the Horn of Africa - collapsed. Its nine million people have been teetering on starvation ever since - and many of the ugliest forces in the Western world have seen this as a great opportunity to steal the country’s food supply and dump our nuclear waste in their seas. Yes: nuclear waste. As soon as the government was gone, mysterious European ships started appearing off the coast of Somalia, dumping vast barrels into the ocean. The coastal population began to sicken. At first they suffered strange rashes, nausea and malformed babies. Then, after the 2005 tsunami, hundreds of the dumped and leaking barrels washed up on shore. People began to suffer from radiation sickness, and more than 300 died. Ahmedou Ould-Abdallah, the UN envoy to Somalia, tells me: “Somebody is dumping nuclear material here. There is also lead, and heavy metals such as cadmium and mercury - you name it.” Much of it can be traced back to European hospitals and factories, who seem to be passing it on to the Italian mafia to “dispose” of cheaply. When I asked Ould-Abdallah what European governments were doing about it, he said with a sigh: “Nothing. There has been no clean-up, no compensation, and no prevention.”
At the same time, other European ships have been looting Somalia’s seas of their greatest resource: seafood. We have destroyed our own fish-stocks by over-exploitation - and now we have moved on to theirs. More than $300m worth of tuna, shrimp, lobster and other sea-life is being stolen every year by vast trawlers illegally sailing into Somalia’s unprotected seas. The local fishermen have suddenly lost their livelihoods, and they are starving. Mohammed Hussein, a fisherman in the town of Marka 100km south of Mogadishu, told Reuters: “If nothing is done, there soon won’t be much fish left in our coastal waters.”

Of course what the pirates are doing is very wrong, but since no one is listening to them, its understandable that they have turned to drastic measures.