Olympic Superpowers That Have More Medals Than Canada...

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Fire

I'm proud as the next guy when Canada wins a medal, but in the end what benefit do we get as a whole by giving athletes a free ride going after their dreams. If athletes want to go to the Olympics then most of the money should be coming from non-public sources. The government should be concentrating on supporting physical activity in general, not specifically towards a few athletes.

Government funds athletes. Athletes win medals. Canadians become more proud and gain a sense of nationality. Canadians buy more Canadian goods and support more Canadian initiatives. Canada's economy gets stronger.

Simplistic, but there is benefit to gaining national pride.

Sending a 300-man delegation to an international event and winning no medals is a big deal for national reputation.

[arsenal]

Originally Posted by Fire

I'm proud as the next guy when Canada wins a medal, but in the end what benefit do we get as a whole by giving athletes a free ride going after their dreams. If athletes want to go to the Olympics then most of the money should be coming from non-public sources. The government should be concentrating on supporting physical activity in general, not specifically towards a few athletes.

Does it really matter if we have a faster swimmer than the Americans. Does that give the USA a leg up on Canada somehow?

It is the athletes dream. But it could also inspire a whole new generation of kids to strive towards something. It gives them someone they can look up to.
It happens all the time with hockey in Canada. Why can't we have the same with Olympic sports?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Government funds athletes. Athletes win medals. Canadians become more proud and gain a sense of nationality. Canadians buy more Canadian goods and support more Canadian initiatives. Canada's economy gets stronger.

Simplistic, but there is benefit to gaining national pride.

Sending a 300-man delegation to an international event and winning no medals is a big deal for national reputation.

That sounds like a huge leap to me.

Even if Canada won every medal, people would still make their purchases based on the best value for their dollar. Heck, if the Canadian economy grew more, people would probably buy even more foreign goods as comparatively speaking, Canadian products would become more expensive.

The fact we buy so many Chinese products now has nothing to do with their prowress at the Olympics, or our lack of self respect.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Government funds athletes. Athletes win medals. Canadians become more proud and gain a sense of nationality. Canadians buy more Canadian goods and support more Canadian initiatives. Canada's economy gets stronger.

Simplistic, but there is benefit to gaining national pride.

Sending a 300-man delegation to an international event and winning no medals is a big deal for national reputation.

There is NO economic 'benefit' to blowing away wads of public dollars into winning international tiddily winks contests.

Playing up the nationalism card in economics can have disasterous results. That's how we start going down the Bombadier train (no pun intended). Buying things because they're Canadian would actually hurt the economy in the long run rather than help it. If you and everyone else just blindly bought Canadian goods because they were Canadian and not on the basis of utility then Canadian service providers and manufacturers wouldn't have to compete or keep up with foreign alternatives for domestic customers(Who might even have a natural competitive advantage). The end result would be lower productivity, worse balance of trade (Because less of our own companies would be competitive worldwide), worse standard of living (Because the utility (Price vs. Quality) we'd get out of our inferior products would be worse), and even further wasting of public funds bailling out failing industries that we do not have a competitive advantage in but feel should be Canadian (Perfect example being Bombadier, Air Canada, GM, Ford, Chrysler).

[4X4]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Quite frankly we don't need to overpower the world in the Olympics to consider our country a great place. China, the US, and in the past Communist countries need to win these medals for propaganda purposes. This is why the Chinese have 11 year old gymnists that they fudge documents in order to prove they're 16 (The minimum age to compete in womens gymnastics), why the US in the past has taken steps to ensure their athletes are clean for testing days but don't care about doping the rest of the year, and why Communist bloc countries injected many female weightlifters and other female competitors with enough testostrone to levels exceeding most men.

The whole thing is a joke and my sense of nationalism is actually enriched when my country isn't the one partaking in excessive garbage to win the most medals. We have much greater priorities with our tax dollars and corporations their donations than Olympic athletes.

Totally agree. Didn't read past this post so I'm sorry if what I'm about to say has already been said...

Whoever cares about the medal count at the Olympics should be contributing toward it's funding or encouraging the company they work for to sponsor an athlete or maybe even donating some of their own time or perhaps a room in their house for an athlete.

Maybe that sounds a bit much for one person, but with the national coverage the lack of medals is getting, it sure sounds like alot of people care about this. At least for the two weeks that the Olympics are actually on. Then the rest of the time, nobody cares.

What's with this mentality that the government should be spending money on stuff like this when there are hundreds of more useful ways to divvy up tax dollars that are actually beneficial to everyone?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for winning. Hell, I make my own contribution towards the sports I care about. Hockey. I buy tickets. I buy tickets to NHL games which train the athletes I care about. I even bought tickets and attended a Team Canada game at the Torino Olympics.

So what I'm saying is that if you want something, make it happen. And as for the one who complained that we have no national identity, you're wrong. Our true national identity is being showcased right here in this thread. A bunch of whining that nobody is giving people free money to play games.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

There is NO economic 'benefit' to blowing away wads of public dollars into winning international tiddily winks contests.

That, right there, is exactly why this thread has started up, as someone has pointed out earlier.

There is plenty of economic benefit to having gold-medal producing athletes.

All I have to do is look at the our gold medal ambitions in ice hockey (Olympics or World Juniors, both managed by federally-funded Hockey Canada), and realize the latent benefits we get from having world-class athletes don the Canadian jersey. If we were national or perennial on-ice losers, the game wouldn't be as strong as it is today, and wouldn't be the economic institution that multitudes of industries derive benefit from.

Not to mention high-performing athletes and athletic systems can have trickle-down benefits for the general health and interest in sports in today's out-of-shape Canadian population.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That, right there, is exactly why this thread has started up, as someone has pointed out earlier.

There is plenty of economic benefit to having gold-medal producing athletes.

All I have to do is look at the our gold medal ambitions in ice hockey (Olympics or World Juniors, both managed by federally-funded Hockey Canada), and realize the latent benefits we get from having world-class athletes don the Canadian jersey. If we were national or perennial on-ice losers, the game wouldn't be as strong as it is today, and wouldn't be the economic institution that multitudes of industries derive benefit from.

Not to mention high-performing athletes and athletic systems can have trickle-down benefits for the general health and interest in sports in today's out-of-shape Canadian population.

Canada was pretty shabby in international hockey for a long time.

And while the Olympic and world juniors are funded by hockey Canada, they are only in the sense that they pay the freight when a tournament comes up, but they don't fund the training of any of their athletes*. The hockey players got their funding the old fashioned way -- their dad paid for it.

*except in those rare development camps, but the reality is the players pay for their own training by playing junior or professional hockey for a private enterprise

[North East Goon]

Originally Posted by fotze

Being proud of something you had nothing to do with, is sweet solace for your own below average accomplishments.

Like if the Flames won the cup in 09?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

And while the Olympic and world juniors are funded by hockey Canada, they are only in the sense that they pay the freight when a tournament comes up, but they don't fund the training of any of their athletes*. The hockey players got their funding the old fashioned way -- their dad paid for it.

And the government doesn't have to fund most hockey players. Why? Because Canadian families value hockey enough to see it as a worthy investment, whereas most Canadians wouldn't consider diving or gymnastics any sort of future to invest in. Hockey is such a staple in the Canadian diet, it's practically at the base on the hierarchy of needs for many Canadians, right there with food, clothing, and shelter (figure of speech.)

This is where the problem lies, and this is where, if attitudes were changed, we'd be producing gold medal athletes right now at the summer games.

EDIT: Actually, I shouldn't say it's a 'problem' as much as a 'phenomenon.' There is nothing wrong with investing in hockey, it's just as viable and legitimate a sport as many others.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

That, right there, is exactly why this thread has started up, as someone has pointed out earlier.

There is plenty of economic benefit to having gold-medal producing athletes.

All I have to do is look at the our gold medal ambitions in ice hockey (Olympics or World Juniors, both managed by federally-funded Hockey Canada), and realize the latent benefits we get from having world-class athletes don the Canadian jersey. If we were national or perennial on-ice losers, the game wouldn't be as strong as it is today, and wouldn't be the economic institution that multitudes of industries derive benefit from.

Not to mention high-performing athletes and athletic systems can have trickle-down benefits for the general health and interest in sports in today's out-of-shape Canadian population.

The reason why we have world class hockey players has very little or nothing to do with the Olympic movement or tax dollars. Also when evaluating the best use of capital, just simply pointing out small benefits does not suffice as there's an opportunity cost to consider when making decisions. Economic benefit of gold medals vs millions to spend on MRI machines/staff, infrastructure improvements, higher education, tax cuts, etc. There's plenty of more important priorities that I'm sure if put on a referendum ballot Canadians would rather have their tax money spent.

[mmanzz]

There are very few things in sports that feel better then watching Canadians kick butt at international sport. Wait till the weekend and you will see the rowers and canoeists grab a few medals. It is important that we fund sports that tie in to Canadian history and culture, the country was opened up and and explored on canoes and boats. And of course, we own the winter! so we need to dominate in that area. Other sports like soccer, basketball and such should identify with many new Canadians and are very visible on the world stage, we gain prestige and bragging rights.

And my own personal favorite is all of the combat sports; Boxing, fencing, judo, wrestling, and taikwondo. I still remember Daniel Ingali winning the gold in wrestling, that was a big one and i was there in Sydney when he won that. Our boxing team is pathetic and very poorly funded, watching one of my countrymen get beaten like that was not fun. Hearing the story of Sherraine Schalm and her having to run around the world for fencing training is nuts, she is going up against countries that have full support mechanisms similar to that received by the Calgary Flames.

The bottom line is its more fun to win and to watch us winning and it is tied in with national pride, if you care or have any.

[Muta]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1820543.stm

Good article from the 2002 Olympics about the economy behind the Games. Interesting part:

The price of gold, silver or bronze

On the basis of the authors' calculations, it is possible to work out how much it would cost to perform better at the Olympics. Although there are certain anomalies - notably impoverished but sporty Romania - rich countries always perform best.

The Olympics, it seems, is an expensive business: to send an extra competitor, a country has to increase its GDP per head by $260.


An extra medal costs $1,700, and a gold $4,750, in terms of per-capita wealth. The richer the country, the cheaper the marginal cost of improvement: Poland would have to spend four times as much per head as would the US, in order to boost its presence at the games.

Just some food for thought.

Me personally, I see the Olympics as the pinnacle event of the sporting world; the chance for all games (no matter how popular they are in Canada) to come together and to display to the world what they're all about. I COMPLETELY RESPECT that.

I would hope that Canada strives to be the best it can be on the world stage; the Olympics is a great platform to do just that. Canadian athletics is very much a part of our culture and does help to define our national pride.
I can tell you this much: I would much rather have my tax dollars go to funding athletes that can compete with the rest of the world on the biggest stage of them all (the Olympics), than have my tax dollars go to government initiatives such as supporting / compensating reserves, gun registries, etc. that are critically flawed in not just logic, but execution.

[Blaster86]

You mean this is an actual olympics?! I thought it was just a 2-year warning for 2010 Vancouver! I thought the world was really just as excited as me to see olympic hockey again!

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

The reason why we have world class hockey players has very little or nothing to do with the Olympic movement or tax dollars. Also when evaluating the best use of capital, just simply pointing out small benefits does not suffice as there's an opportunity cost to consider when making decisions. Economic benefit of gold medals vs millions to spend on MRI machines/staff, infrastructure improvements, higher education, tax cuts, etc. There's plenty of more important priorities that I'm sure if put on a referendum ballot Canadians would rather have their tax money spent.

The cost of a nationwide athletics program would pale in comparison to universal health care, a multi-billion dollar industry that is already, and will continue to be a much higher priority than athletic funding, and rightfully so. What funding we can divert from our already existing programs into the Canadian health care system would barely make a dent...a dent...improving hospitals, wait times, medication and all that jazz for every Canadian.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

And the government doesn't have to fund most hockey players. Why? Because Canadian families value hockey enough to see it as a worthy investment, whereas most Canadians wouldn't consider diving or gymnastics any sort of future to invest in. Hockey is such a staple in the Canadian diet, it's practically at the base on the hierarchy of needs for many Canadians, right there with food, clothing, and shelter (figure of speech.)

I don't think many families take into account a possible future in a sport when they get their child involved. At least I hope not. Talk about a lot of dashed hopes.

Maybe immigration will knock hockey down a peg or two though? I don't know, I'm just babbling now, but it would make sense that with more people coming from different places (ie not Europe) that other sports will take off. But I kinda of doubt it. We'll probably just end up with guys named Banerjee or Nguyen on the national hockey team, and their dad will be secretly disappointed the kids didn't pick up cricket or badminton.

[Incogneto]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

How embarrassing. Instead of giving the CBC a billion dollars a year of taxpayer money we could give them 500 million and give the other 500 million towards sponsorship and funding for our athletes. Oh I know I know, everyone is going to miss that latest episode of Little Mosque on the Prairie.

A-F'ing-MEN!!!!

This country needs to ditch CBC Stat!

[The Yen Man]

Selfishly, I just wish I had more to cheer for when watching the Olympics. Luckily for me, since I'm Chinese, there's always China to cheer for. So go China!

[Muta]

Originally Posted by InCoGnEtO

A-F'ing-MEN!!!!

This country needs to ditch CBC Stat!

Ahahaha, got me thinking... Ron MacLean was on TV yesterday doing a piece on the states of current Olympic Sports in Canada, and he was doing it infront of what looked like a back-lighted glass setup with an intricately designed/customized set to report the news from.

It just kinda hit me right there that, perhaps, our funding priorities are not where they need to be during the Olympics. Just symbolic in nature, that's all.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

Selfishly, I just wish I had more to cheer for when watching the Olympics. Luckily for me, since I'm Chinese, there's always China to cheer for. So go China!

Where's the fun in that? China wins all the medals anyways, so it's not like it'd be very exciting to follow.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I wish I had Olympic Superpowers!

Flying would be awesome!