Man stabbed, then decapitated on grey hound bus

[The Yen Man]

I also fail to see how CCW would have helped in this situation. For some reason, a bunch of panicked witnesses brandishing guns in a packed bus doesn't paint a very pretty picture for me.

Real life is a little different than a video game. Just because you have mad skills playing Halo doesn't mean you're a marksman with a real gun. I think a lot of people fail to realize that. Case in point. After every story about police taking down a dangerous assailant with a gun, I see comments like "oh he should have shot him in the leg or arm to disarm him".

[Russic]

We are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. When debating CCW, I'm not going to be able to take " well they have it in America" as a persuasive point.

I understand that allowing CCW doesn't mean everybody gets a pistol in the mail. All I'm saying is that if I get into a situation where I'm among a group of panicked, untrained civilians all running frantically, I'd rather somebody not be carrying a handgun.

Edit:

After every story about police taking down a dangerous assailant with a gun, I see comments like "oh he should have shot him in the leg or arm to disarm him".

I agree completely. The accuracy of even trained professionals in situations that require the use of a gun is staggeringly low. I'd rather not be in a crazy situation and see Mike from Canmore pull out a desert eagle.

[Bertuzzied]

I wonder if this will make them put security screenings for passengers at the bus depot now?

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by worth

It wouldn't have made a difference for the victim, but it would have made the rest of the people on the bus a lot safer:

Yeah, because one panicy idiot with a gun sure would have helped the other passengers. Just as likely such a person would have accidentally shot an innocent passenger trying to shoot the killer.

[J pold]

That is messed up

My GF just called me about it, which is the first time she has ever done that

[Fozzie_DeBear]

horrifying...no doubt we will see some sort of rudimentary screening at bus stations now...but this could have happened anywhere the fact this guy snapped on a bus might just be a fluke...it could have been at a mall, or a restaurant.

I don't see any reason why, in this case, a gun would have saved anyones life...batman himself could have been on the bus with a gun and the victim would still be dead...although the victim likely still intact and the attacker would most likely be dead.

To Worth: Not to derail the thread but the protagonist in the Virginia Tech case had access to legal firearms (as I would assume would the rest of the citizens) and in that case access to guns didn't seem to help anyone.

[worth]

It was against the law to carry on the VT campus.

[Muta]

Geezus, could you imagine the last person off the bus when the guy charged the rest of the passengers and got his hand stuck in the door?

Furthermore, could you imagine the state of mind of the 4-5 guys that had to contain that psychopath on the bus??

Thank God for that remote disabling device the bus driver had. Had that lunatic gotten away, who knows how many more people he could have killed. Or, even if he got off the bus through the front door. But, don't those buses have emergency latches up in the roof, or through the windows?? Don't understand why he didn't attempt to get out that way. Good thing he didn't.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by worth

It was against the law to carry on the VT campus.

So?

[Weiser Wonder]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

horrifying...no doubt we will see some sort of rudimentary screening at bus stations now...but this could have happened anywhere the fact this guy snapped on a bus might just be a fluke...it could have been at a mall, or a restaurant.

I don't see any reason why, in this case, a gun would have saved anyones life...batman himself could have been on the bus with a gun and the victim would still be dead...although the victim likely still intact and the attacker would most likely be dead.

To Worth: Not to derail the thread but the protagonist in the Virginia Tech case had access to legal firearms (as I would assume would the rest of the citizens) and in that case access to guns didn't seem to help anyone.

It is doubtful that guns were allowed on campus. That's a big deal down here in Idaho after the VTech shootings. Republicans in the Idaho legislature tried to pass a law forcing universities to allow concealed weapons on campus. The law failed because it removed individual universities' ability to make their own rules.

[worth]

Originally Posted by Fozzie_DeBear

So?

So you're saying guns didn't help people in VT...well that's because they were illegal to have on campus. People who go through the red tape of CCW are generally those who respect and follow local laws. Therefore, anyone with a CCW in VT would be without their firearm on campus, and thus like every other person without a CCW. So i'm not sure what your getting at.

[Dion]

I'm willing to bet the killer was schizophrenic. Like, how else do you explain a person suddenly killing someone for no reason.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

I think most of the shock comes from this apparently being a random act. It's being reported that the killer didn't know the victim. The decapitating part just added to the gruesomeness (is that even a word?) of the whole ordeal.

I've been the victim or a witness to near-violent acts of crime and I can say from experience that the worst feeling is not the random act itself, but the awful feeling that you cannot intervene or protect yourself.

I'm also not saying that a CCW would have stopped the young man from being brutally murdered. The spontaneous nature of the act certainly would have resulted in death, regardless if one of the passengers or the driver had been armed. However, in other acts of crime I can see CCW helping average citizens prevent crime. It has worked in certain jurisdictions of the United States that suffer from disproportionate rates of violent crime and rapes.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I'm going to throw my hat into the CCW argument.
I think it's safe to say that I'm a pretty staunch gun person.
I own several firearms including handguns.

I've never once in my life thought "Gee, I think this would be a great time for me to be carrying a gun around in public"

I honestly don't understand the mentality of people who think that more people having more guns will make people safer.

Yes criminals will always have their guns, but I'm not too keen on having a bunch of regular folks packin heat. Yes they may be trained marksmen, but using a gun in self defence is entirely different than using it at the range. Cops are trained to use their firearms in this way, and that is why they are entrusted to cary weapons. Joe public is not, and I don't trust him to be carrying a weapon so he can "Protect" himself or me.
I'd like to think that I'm a pretty good marksmen, and I KNOW I'm a responsible and law abiding gun owner, but even I don't want people like me carrying concealed (or unconcealed for that matter) weapons whenever they or I feel like it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I'm going to throw my hat into the CCW argument.
I think it's safe to say that I'm a pretty staunch gun person.
I own several firearms including handguns.

I've never once in my life thought "Gee, I think this would be a great time for me to be carrying a gun around in public"

I honestly don't understand the mentality of people who think that more people having more guns will make people safer.

Yes criminals will always have their guns, but I'm not too keen on having a bunch of regular folks packin heat. Yes they may be trained marksmen, but using a gun in self defence is entirely different than using it at the range. Cops are trained to use their firearms in this way, and that is why they are entrusted to cary weapons. Joe public is not, and I don't trust him to be carrying a weapon so he can "Protect" himself or me.
I'd like to think that I'm a pretty good marksmen, and I KNOW I'm a responsible and law abiding gun owner, but even I don't want people like me carrying concealed (or unconcealed for that matter) weapons whenever they or I feel like it.

A feeling isn't the same as having a reasoned position on the matter. I, too, am uneasy about the proposition, but requiring a high-level of police-like training could certainly be a prerequisite for the ownership of a CCW permit.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by peter12

A feeling isn't the same as having a reasoned position on the matter. I, too, am uneasy about the proposition, but requiring a high-level of police-like training could certainly be a prerequisite for the ownership of a CCW permit.

I sitll don't like it even with a high level of training.
Police have a lot more than just firearms training to fall back on when making life and death decisions, and I think it's safe to say that outside of full police training, joe public isn't going to have that.

To say that all you need is a CCW with it's associated training is enough for a regular person to make life and death decisions in very heated circumstances is way off base. To me all CCW permits do is add another level of escalation to problems when untrained people try to get involved.

As I said criminals will always have guns, and the potential to use them. You throw an armed civilial with far less training than a police officer into the mix, and yes there is potential for the situation be be resolved simply and in a way that is great for all involved except the criminal. But there is an even greater potential for things to escalate and worsen much quicker.

[Machiavelli]

Wow, is that a disturbing story or what?

The killer is obviously insane; my god.

I wonder that the witnesses and the victim's families are feeling right now. Truly terrible. And in Canada, too.

[mikey_the_redneck]

How do the other passenger just sit there and watch this happen and not gang up on the guy and tackle him?? Like man up already! People are such wimps these days.........
What a sick story.
This is why the death penalty should be brought back. This guy will just plead "insanity" and get out of jail in about 10 years.
He should hang.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

How do the other passenger just sit there and watch this happen and not gang up on the guy and tackle him?? Like man up already! People are such wimps these days.........
What a sick story.
This is why the death penalty should be brought back. This guy will just plead "insanity" and get out of jail in about 10 years.
He should hang.

Sounds like if you were on the bus, you'd be the first volunteer to tackle a psychopath with a butcher knife in a confined space.

[The Yen Man]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

How do the other passenger just sit there and watch this happen and not gang up on the guy and tackle him?? Like man up already! People are such wimps these days.........
What a sick story.
This is why the death penalty should be brought back. This guy will just plead "insanity" and get out of jail in about 10 years.
He should hang.

You're a lot more brave than me, because in that situation, I think I would have done exactly the same as them. I'd applaud your courage if you actually did try to tackle the guy, as I would not be able to rush in to try to subdue a deranged person brandishing a knife. Call me a wuss, call me a coward. But that's how I honestly think I'd react.