Parents Complaining About Too Much Homework

[STeeLy]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

Moral of the story:

The kid will excel only at things they enjoy.

I know this is about kids... but that will apply to everyone. People in general will excel at things they enjoy.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

Kids should actually have more homework, had I not gone to a private school for grades 11 & 12 i don't think i would have had to do more than an hour of homework or studying ever. I would get killed next year in university as I would have absolutely zero study skills. I love how these parents feel their helping their kids. Stupid, stupid people.

On a related note I hate all this alternative learning non-sense also. They always say some kids learn differently then others which is true but, at the end of the day their gonna be competing with the same kids for jobs so putting them in these alternative programs holds them back significantly and will hurt them later on in life.

Stop babying your kids, you're F***ing up society.

Just the opposite. Many of those in alternative programs would be drop outs if not for those programs and would not be competing for any job period, except the lowest common denominator jobs.

That is why there are choices out there. Choices do not have to imply that students in alternative programs are pampered and babied. Choices are there to facilitate either the learning style, various programs those students might be involved in outside of school, whatever.

Alternative programs, no matter if a very academically oriented like Strathcona Tweedsmuir or if from the other end of the spectrum, at the end of the day, all of the students have to meet the same standards to get their General Diploma.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by WhiteTom

Sorry, I think I may have mis-represented my case a little bit.

The theory, for most people, has to be explained in the classroom. For most people, especially at that age, they have to be taught the various pieces of mathematical theory, or else they won't get it. I know I sure didn't have the patience to learn from a book in Junior High. With that in mind, I think that it would be better if we could let the children do most of their problems in the classroom, allowing them to ask questions as they go about it, but it is almost impossible with the curriculum that is set out these days to both allow people the time they need to explain the theory and let the children do their problems. I think that there may be so much material to be covered with an appropriate amount of time for reiteration, questions and the teacher doing examples that there isn't any significant amount of time to do problems in the classroom.

And here in lies the real problem. I used to teach, specifically Math and Physics. And here is what has happened in the last 30 odd years, and I would say, particularily so in the Maths and Sciences.

The technical age grew by leaps and bounds and consequently, the job market started to demand people who had a high aptitude for the Maths and Sciences.

So the accompanying curriculum was tweeked and more was squeezed in BUT it had to be done in the same time frame. Now if you want to accomplish more in the High School time frame, that means that those coming in from Grade 9 will need a higher skill set to cope. So then curriculum gets downloaded to the Junior High level as well. And of course, that curriculum has to be studied in the same time frame as well.

Now when I taught, I never lectured the whole time. Not only do you lose your students in a hurry, you also would never see if they understood the gist of your lesson. You have to give them some in class work that is an application of the lesson you just gave. If all are struggling, then your lesson never went over well and you will have to repeat. If just a few are struggling, which should be the case, you deal with those students.

With the extra curriculum these days, you just do not have the same amount of in class time to spend with the kids when they are trying to apply what they learned from your lesson to the work you have given them.

I for one am surprised so many parents just suck it up and do not complain more. I totally agree with some who are saying that free time, or time spent in sports, music, whatever, is very important to the development of any person. I think that parents themselves can take a lot of the blame because too many parents that I see now want to have super kids who will be so prepared throughout their life that they will just have all the doors opened for them later on in life. I mean, when people are signing their "potential in the future kids" up for preschool before they even have children, well there is something wrong with that picture.

There is something to be said for children who are well educated and well prepared for the world if they have been able to lead a balanced life while getting that education. On the other hand, Alberta leads Canada in teen suicides. What should that tell us? Well, I think it should say that there is too much stress put on children these days. That stress can come from the home environment, it can come from the number crunches at universities and colleges that say if you don't get at least this average, you are toast, it can come from the kids themselves who put so much pressure on themselves to do it all and in the end, they can't.

There is a fine line here , a balancing act if you will, and that line is about to be broken if educators, parents, institutions just keep saying, do more, more, more.

[Dion]

Redforever sums it up quite nicely!

Nice to hear a teachers perspective on the issue.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by redforever

Well, I think it should say that there is too much stress put on children these days.

huh? I gotta disagree with you on this one. I go to a demanding school, maintain a 88-90% average, am training for a marathon, hang out with buddies and am relatively stress free. I think a huge chunk of this stress is not put on kids but created by their own procrastination. If you make a schedual and stick too it things generally get acomplished and you feel good. It's when you don't do stuff, fall behind and wait to do things until the last minute when this stress kicks in. It's all about balance.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

huh? I gotta disagree with you on this one. I go to a demanding school, maintain a 88-90% average, am training for a marathon, hang out with buddies and am relatively stress free. I think a huge chunk of this stress is not put on kids but created by their own procrastination. If you make a schedual and stick too it things generally get acomplished and you feel good. It's when you don't do stuff, fall behind and wait to do things until the last minute when this stress kicks in. It's all about balance.

And there are only 12% to 15% maximum who can keep up such a schedule.

It is just common sense that most will not be able to keep up an 88-90% average in school. Most of us are quite "average". We might not want to admit that but it is what we are, average with possibly some strengths that allow us to excel in a few things.

The 15% on top can do it all, many are bored in average settings and need to be challenged.

Then there are the 15% on the bottom who sadly will always struggle, no matter how much homework they do, no matter how hard they try, they just struggle daily trying to achieve.

So then how should you set your curriculum and your standards? The lowest common denominator? I think not. On the other hand, if you set your standards so high that 85% will struggle, does that make sense either? There has to be a common denominator and then those who are gifted, well you try and give them extra programs, whatever, to keep them challenged. And then for those who constantly struggle, you try and give them enough of the basics and enough extra help, not to challenge them, but to hopefully give them enough skills so they can cope later on in life.

It is not fair to say, look at me, I can do it all and all you have to do to be like me is just balance your time better and it will all be ok. It won't.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by redforever

And there are only 12% to 15% maximum who can keep up such a schedule.

It is just common sense that most will not be able to keep up an 88-90% average in school. Most of us are quite "average". We might not want to admit that but it is what we are, average with possibly some strengths that allow us to excel in a few things.

The 15% on top can do it all, many are bored in average settings and need to be challenged.

Then there are the 15% on the bottom who sadly will always struggle, no matter how much homework they do, no matter how hard they try, they just struggle daily trying to achieve.

So then how should you set your curriculum and your standards? The lowest common denominator? I think not. On the other hand, if you set your standards so high that 85% will struggle, does that make sense either? There has to be a common denominator and then those who are gifted, well you try and give them extra programs, whatever, to keep them challenged. And then for those who constantly struggle, you try and give them enough of the basics and enough extra help, not to challenge them, but to hopefully give them enough skills so they can cope later on in life.

It is not fair to say, look at me, I can do it all and all you have to do to be like me is just balance your time better and it will all be ok. It won't.

How can only 12-15% of people keep a schedual like that. I don't understand what's so hard about going to school, doin a little homework, playing a sport/having a job, and hanging out with buddies. What's hard about that? Sure not everyone's grades will be at a high level but guarranteed if they stopped procrasinating their grades would improve and their lives would be way less stressful.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

How can only 12-15% of people keep a schedual like that. I don't understand what's so hard about going to school, doin a little homework, playing a sport/having a job, and hanging out with buddies. What's hard about that? Sure not everyone's grades will be at a high level but guarranteed if they stopped procrasinating their grades would improve and their lives would be way less stressful.

I really thought that since you achieve at the 88 to 90% level, you would be able to see the big picture.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by redforever

I really thought that since you achieve at the 88 to 90% level, you would be able to see the big picture.

I do see the big picture. The cirruculum is flawed and i acknowledge that but i also believe that alot of this stress is unnecessary and created due to people's procrastination. As stated by several other posters teachers usually give ample time in class to complete assignments but people general choose to talk or do other things. It's people's laziness that kills them.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

huh? I gotta disagree with you on this one. I go to a demanding school, maintain a 88-90% average, am training for a marathon, hang out with buddies and am relatively stress free. I think a huge chunk of this stress is not put on kids but created by their own procrastination. If you make a schedual and stick too it things generally get acomplished and you feel good. It's when you don't do stuff, fall behind and wait to do things until the last minute when this stress kicks in. It's all about balance.

I was never a good student during my primary school years. I probably put in more time than most did for homework. Part was due to the fact that things didn't always come easy for me. Math for example never made sense for me and i had to spend countless extra hours trying to a get a garsp on the subject. In fact i'm sure there were are are countless others like me that struggled in school everyday.

While i'm happy you were able to that 88 - 90% average there are countless others where that type of mark is just a dream They have to put in twice sometimes three times the work to come close to what you can do.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Dion

I was never a good student during my primary school years. I probably put in more time than most did for homework. Part was due to the fact that things didn't always come easy for me. Math for example never made sense for me and i had to spend countless extra hours trying to a get a garsp on the subject. In fact i'm sure there were are are countless others like me that struggled in school everyday.

While i'm happy you were able to that 88 - 90% average there are countless others where that type of mark is just a dream They have to put in twice sometimes three times the work to come close to what you can do.

Who are these kids that put in twice/three times the work i do and still get less work. I'm probably generalizing here but you rarely see kids with lower marks in the library during spare or lunch or working on their assignments weeks in advance.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

Who are these kids that put in twice/three times the work i do and still get less work. I'm probably generalizing here but you rarely see kids with lower marks in the library during spare or lunch or working on their assignments weeks in advance.

You don't want to believe? No problem. Not much else i can say that would change your mind i guess.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Dion

You don't want to believe? No problem. Not much else i can say that would change your mind i guess.

No not really. I guess where I disagree is you seem to think that it's all has to do with people being smart enough where i seem to think that it's a combination of smarts and work ethics. I do however believe that work ethics are the biggest problem.

A good example of this would be when my mom taught a forth year finance course at a university. Over the year she didn't assign very much homework, posted all her notes on the web, went over in depth solutions to problem in class. So the final exam comes around and every single question on it is one they have done in class or that was part of the homework only companies names were changed. On top of that she let them bring in a sheet of paper with anything they wanted on it. Somehow, only one person got over 80% on the exam. Clearly the poor results were due to laziness and not smarts.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

No not really. I guess where I disagree is you seem to think that it's all has to do with people being smart enough where i seem to think that it's a combination of smarts and work ethics. I do however believe that work ethics are the biggest problem.

A good example of this would be when my mom taught a forth year finance course at a university. Over the year she didn't assign very much homework, posted all her notes on the web, went over in depth solutions to problem in class. So the final exam comes around and every single question on it is one they have done in class or that was part of the homework only companies names were changed. On top of that she let them bring in a sheet of paper with anything they wanted on it. Somehow, only one person got over 80% on the exam. Clearly the poor results were due to laziness and not smarts.

Yes really. It has nothing to do with work ethics. Those struggling to get good grades often need extra help to grasp the subject. Either in a form of help after class from a teacher or from a parent at home. In extreme cases help from a tutor.

Those that got grades like yourself in my primary school years didn't have to work hard at their subjects. For the most part the learning part came easy and they grasped the subject quite quickly. Some that i knew didn't have to study very hard for exams and all - often bragged about it to.

The stress students like me and others struggled with were trying to grasp the subject and hopefully passing the course. In math and sceince in particular getting a 50% to pass was a great struggle for me.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by Dion

Yes really. It has nothing to do with work ethics. Those struggling to get good grades often need extra help to grasp the subject. Either in a form of help after class from a teacher or from a parent at home. In extreme cases help from a tutor.

Yeah even with all these resources availible I find they rarely use them due to their own laziness. In fact it seems like guys who are already decently smart but looking for that extra push are the ones using those resources. I even know in my case i'm in after class getting help from the teacher and usually i'm the only one there.

Originally Posted by Dion

Those that got grades like yourself in my primary school years didn't have to work hard at their subjects. For the most part the learning part came easy and they grasped the subject quite quickly. Some that i knew didn't have to study very hard for exams and all - often bragged about it to.

That's complete b.s. I worked my a** off to get my grades. All my friends with good grades work way harder than people who get lower grades than them. I know alot of kids that say they don't study hard but often times it's just so they don't seem like a nerd. I've done it in the past when I used to think doing good in school wasn't the "cool" thing too do. Chances are the kids who "don't study" actually do put in alot of work.

[Dan02]

Originally Posted by troutman

I think many smart kids are not challenged in high school. When they get to University they are not prepared. I sure wasn't.

Indeed, my idea of homework was anything i felt like doing on the bus ride to school. Yeah it meant some 0s on assignments when i wasn't feeling motivated but still was on the honour roll because tests were stupidly easy.

University was a wakeup call, atleast til i realized alot of courses consisted only of exams and tailored my course selection to how it would be graded. My idea of getting educated does not consist of spending a ton of my free time doing assignments/papers which use up way more time then they are worth in terms of marks. 20+ hours on a assignment which is worth 5% when 2 hour exams are worth 30%?? not my idea of a good use of time. I could be wasting time in the OT forum on CP.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

Yeah even with all these resources availible I find they rarely use them due to their own laziness. In fact it seems like guys who are already decently smart but looking for that extra push are the ones using those resources. I even know in my case i'm in after class getting help from the teacher and usually i'm the only one there.


That's complete b.s. I worked my a** off to get my grades. All my friends with good grades work way harder than people who get lower grades than them. I know alot of kids that say they don't study hard but often times it's just so they don't seem like a nerd. I've done it in the past when I used to think doing good in school wasn't the "cool" thing too do. Chances are the kids who "don't study" actually do put in alot of work.

I said for the most part and NOT all.

Just forget it. It's clear you want to discount everything i've said.

Not much piont of arguing this any further. Believe what you want.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by wpgflamesfan

Yeah even with all these resources availible I find they rarely use them due to their own laziness. In fact it seems like guys who are already decently smart but looking for that extra push are the ones using those resources. I even know in my case i'm in after class getting help from the teacher and usually i'm the only one there.



That's complete b.s. I worked my a** off to get my grades. All my friends with good grades work way harder than people who get lower grades than them. I know alot of kids that say they don't study hard but often times it's just so they don't seem like a nerd. I've done it in the past when I used to think doing good in school wasn't the "cool" thing too do. Chances are the kids who "don't study" actually do put in alot of work.

Part of being intelligent and a grown up is not being condescending and a smart arse.

Dion has told you he struggled in school and had to work hard to get a 50% in Math and for him, that was an accomplishment. No, you might not understand that concept because you only achieve at the 88 to 90% level. But you could certainly be open to the fact that is how it is for some people.

We all have our strengths, we all have our weaknesses. And when we have a weakness, we have to work very hard to try and overcome it. And if overcoming and getting a 50% is as good as it gets, then who are you to say that something like that is complete b.s?

I can tell you one thing, I am allergic to a sewing machine, oh yes I am, I can not be very creative or productive on a sewing machine at all. Nor can I be creative with a paintbrush in my hand. And no matter how hard I would try to change those weaknesses, I will never be an accomplished seamstress or artist. I could work my arse off and I would still be drawing stick men.

On the other hand, give me some dirt, some plants, some flowers, and I can be very productive and accomplished. I can be quite artistic in my gardens, never on a piece of paper.

So be happy and proud of yourself and your high achievements, but at the same time, be open to the fact that most people will not get to that same level. It might be because they were not born with as many cards in the deck, it might be because they do not work as hard as you, it might be a combination of many things. But that is how humanity is, we are all different, accept it.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Traditional_Ale

I barely made it through school. Barely passed, mostly because I didn't do any homework and instead practiced musical instruments and worked on tunes.

Then I somehow got it together enough in my senior year of high school to manage an 80 avg!

Then I went to post-secondary audio school and got straight A's.

Moral of the story:

The kid will excel only at things they enjoy.

I studied business admin at both SAIT and NAIT. It took me 3 years to finish a 2 year course. During the second year i went half days - mornings - to repeat all my accounting and business math courses i failed from the first year. Just to get caught up. It was only when i got into my specialty - marketing management - in the third year did i finally pass all my courses and end up with a diploma. Toughest 3 years of my life BUT i made it!

[Shazam]

Meh. High school was exceedingly easy for me. I didn't really study, had a 100% streak in Math 30 for pretty well the whole year (unfortunately, I only got 99% percent overall because the grading system didn't allow for three digit percentages), and some of my classes were independent study (physics, chemistry). My test scores were so high that I pummelled the curve - usually, the teacher would take the highest score and make that what the test would be out of, but because my scores were so close to perfect, I'd make 3/4 of the class fail. By the time I was in grade 12 I had accumulated so many credits that I was able to get an exemption for taking anything resembling even a partial course load, so I'd have my afternoons off every day.

In university, not studying pummelled me for a bit. Some of that too was because I found the natural sciences classes very boring. I switched to business and found that much more interesting and therefore I did much better. My final year finance classes were incredibly difficult. I also took a lot of options in topics that I knew I would find difficult - sociology, psychology, management accounting (ug), computer science.