Alright, let's Address the Olympic Torch Relay

[Slava]

^^^ I know what you are saying there CC. I do think that the human rights record is deplorable and China should have to face the musis for that. It does suck that the only way for world leaders to take a stand though is a sporting event.

[Winsor_Pilates]

As already mentioned by others, I think the Golden Gate banners were great. No violence, no permiment damage to a world landmark, and a positive message that will get seen by millions.

A+ protesting!

going after athletes runnign with the torch is overboard. If I was an athlete running with it, I would feel threatened and likely get violent with anyone runnign after me. Leave them alone and focus the energy in more productive meens.

[troutman]

strange - the torch bearer ran right into a warehouse, and not on to the Embarcadero

speculation is torch is going on a boat, and avoiding the streets

crowd might get frustrated - some have been there since 3:00 am - people have come from as far away as LA and China for this

protestors are blocking route (Embarcadero)

CNN- torch is likely on a ferry

British PM has decided not to attend opening of games

police can't clear the street

a bus has been vandalized

pro-Beijing people very organized - chanting "Dalai Liar" - blaming media for "not telling truth about China"

torch may be on a bus now -"where is the torch"?

relay route has changed - Van Ness and Sutter - an "army" of police surrounding runner at this intersection -relay is delayed as they wait for all security to arrive - runner has started running N on Van Ness - will end at Justin Herman Plaza

"the statue of liberty play"

crowds are following the helicopters to see where the torch is going

[mmanzz]

Wow, the security looks like a presidential motorcade. Wonder how many crimes are being committed while this heavy police presence protects this "show".

[GirlySports]

Amazing scenes. I never thought I'd ever see the Olympic Torch have to be smuggled from place to place on buses and ferries. What a disgrace for the IOC.

I love the Olympics as much as anyone, but it's going to be hard to stomach it this summer. I think I'll just go on vacation in August after the Euro 2008

[EddyBeers]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Chretien preferred golfing to attending the funerals of major world leaders. I doubt he would have ever wasted his time supporting his nation's athletes.

I am sure the President of China does not really care what Steve Harper has to say or do anyway, I mean, after all, Harper had to wait outside the john to meet with the President of China at the 2006 APEC summit, that is respect. I bet the President would not even know if Steve came or not.

[Option84]

Very easy way to incite changes in China.

1. Go to store.
2. Pick up item.
3. If item reads "Made in China" then put it back and find another brand.
4. If item only exists in "Made in China" form then tough luck.

All this recent ######baggery is not going to solve anything. Money talks.

[simonsays]

Am I seriously the only person on this board who thinks that snuffing out the torch is hilarious? 'Sorry kids, but the Olympics are canceled. Someone put out the torch."

And won't somebody please think of the athletes?

'Hi, I'm a hurdler. I run, quite fast, and then I jump over hurdles. Literal hurdles. When I'm not doing that I'm applying for amateur sport bursaries from the government.'

I love the Olympics.

[troutman]

Torch leaves S.F. after surprise route shift
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...2IIM.DTL&tsp=1

The finger-pointing is bound to go on for days about whether changing the route at the last minute was right. But on Wednesday, Mayor Gavin Newsom and other officials said that once they got a good look mid-morning at the chanting, surging, flag-waving crowds along the torch's advertised route, they felt they had no choice.

"If we had started down that (original) route, I guarantee you would have seen helmet-clad officers with batons pushing back protesters," San Francisco Police Chief Heather Fong said.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...MNB7102VIB.DTL

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Option84

Very easy way to incite changes in China.

1. Go to store.
2. Pick up item.
3. If item reads "Made in China" then put it back and find another brand.
4. If item only exists in "Made in China" form then tough luck.

All this recent ######baggery is not going to solve anything. Money talks.

Totally agree. Olympic boycott is ridiculous. Boycotting the opening ceremonies is out-and-out stupid.

[mmanzz]

Olympic boycott, excellent idea! many of the products that are made in china are sold by companies that are Olympic sponsors(Coca Cola, Samsung(now made in china), and so on). Boycotting the opening ceremonies and playing in the games, even better idea! avoid giving the hosts a propaganda victory while using their facilities so our athletes can kick their butts!

The idea of our athletes and the Canadian flag walking in front of the "Imperial box" in the host country's Olympic stadium is disgusting. Scrap that!

Boycotts are a valid peaceful method of protest and have been very effective in the past(SA is a very good example).

[troutman]

Buenos Aires Argentina gets the next leg of the torch relay. I see the protests getting bigger and bigger, until the IOC has to cancel it.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by troutman

Buenos Aires Argentina gets the next leg of the torch relay. I see the protests getting bigger and bigger, until the IOC has to cancel it.

I certainly hope so. The likelihood of a boycott is virtually nil. But the very idea of parading our athletes in front of the Chinese State makes me ill.

[troutman]

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/20...250711-ap.html

But clearly the kind of daily protests inspired by riots a half decade ago have now become commonplace in Argentina, even as mayor Mauricio Macri urged protesters to stay away and not make "politics" of a sporting relay.

Authorities are deploying 1,300 federal police, 1,500 naval police and some 3,000 traffic police and volunteers - enough to ensure security "without going to the extreme that nobody will be able to see the torch," Irarrazabal added.

Activists were already preparing protests: Jorge Carcavallo unfurled a giant banner along the torch route reading "Free Tibet."

Falun Gong member Axel Borgia said the spiritual movement banned by China would protest as well, but he wouldn't give details. "The Olympic Games and crimes against humanity cannot coexist in China," Borgia said.

Amnesty International's local chapter issued a statement condemning what it called a growing human rights crackdown in Tibet. It wasn't taking part in protests but said the relay has become a rallying point for those demanding free speech and civil liberties in China and its territories.

[troutman]

Live video:

http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream4

Argentina Olympic torch relay
Streets are barricaded and thousands of police deployed for the torch's only Latin American stop in Buenos Aires

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapc...lay/index.html

"It is a crisis, there's no doubt about that," Rogge said at a news conference in Beijing. "But the IOC has weathered many bigger storms."

The relay went fairly well in San Francisco compared with chaotic relays in London and Paris, Rogge said in a statement, but "it was not ... the joyous party that we wished it to be."

In a rare mention of human rights in China, Rogge admitted that the committee hoped "awarding the games to China would advance the social agenda of China, including human rights."

His comments were immediately dismissed by a Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman, who reminded Rogge that the Olympic committee's charter clearly separates the games from politics.

But Rogge said its decision was based on "a moral engagement rather than a political one.

"And we definitely ask China to respect this moral engagement," he said.

[Itse]

I think it's brilliant. The IOC and China are the ones that have tainted the torch, those people are merely getting the point through. I think this can not be allowed to become a propaganda success for China. I think it was high time to recognize that sports do not get a free pass from human rights issues. The IOC has become nothing but a moneymaking machine, a multinational corporation like any other, and it's being treated as such.

I for one am doing my bit by not watching the games and refusing to discuss the results of the games. As far as I'm concerned, there are no olympics in China.

[Hack&Lube]

For a fun diversion, one of those so-called "letters from ordinary chinese to the west"

When we were seen as "Sick Men from East Asia", we were called The Peril.
When we strived to get stronger, we are called The Threat.

When we closed our doors to the world, you forced them open with drugs and guns.
When we finally embraced Free Trade, you blame us for taking away your jobs.

When we were falling apart, you marched in your troops and robbed us blind.
When we put the broken pieces back together again, "Free Tibet" you screamed, it was an invasion!

So, we tried Communism, you hated us for being Communists.
Then we learned from Capitalism, you hated us for being Capitalists.

When we had a billion people, you said "The planet is starving."
So we tried to limit our population, you said it was Human Rights Abuse.

When we were poor, you think we are dogs.
When we loan you cash, you blame us for your debts.

When we build our industries, you blame us for global warming.
When we sell you goods you can afford, you blame us for dumping inferior products.

When we buy oil, you called that exploitation and assisting genocide.
When you fight for oil, you called that Liberation of Its People.

When we were lost in chaos and rampage, you wanted Rules of Law for us.
When we uphold our law and order against violence, you called that Violating Human Rights.

When we were silent, you said we have No Free Speech.
When we are NOW silent no more, you say we are merely "Brainwashed".

"Why do you hate us so much?" We asked.
"No" You answered, "We don't hate you."
Truth is we really don't hate you either, but do you understand us?
"Of course we do" You said, "We have BBC, CNN and AFPs."
So we ask you now "What do you really know and want from us?"
And "Why do you find it SO hard to accept us?"

[Hemi-Cuda]

IMO every western democratic nation needs to man up and boycott the opening and closing ceremonies at the very least. the west is good at taking about how China should change their ways towards Tibet, but when it comes to actually doing something they're all afraid of pissing off their source for cheap labor. and i don't buy the excuse of not wanting to bring politics into the olympics, because the IOC did that the day they awarded them to China

i'd be all for boycotting the olympics in their entirety. sure it may be unfair to the athletes, but if it would help put more pressure on China to change then it would be worth it