Club Fined for Banning Man Based on Race

[killer_carlson]

the Human Rights Commission is a tribunal type set up designed to adjudicate these matters without having to go to Court.

The club owners can appeal this decision to the Courts and ask for judicial review of the decision. Did she apply the correct principles, did she ignore key facts, was her finding reasonable or correct?

The Human Rights Commission is also not where you go to make a pile of money. $5,000 from them is actually a pretty good award. He suffered no financial damages, rather indignation to his person on the basis of his personal characteristics. This was about the principle involved and slapping the night club.

The costs of the Human Rights Commission are actually quite cheap. You make a complaint, then sit back as the investigator looks into it and makes a decision. If the club doesn't like it, then the Human Rights Commission steps up and defends its decision. This kid probably didn't need a lawyer - he might have wanted one due to the publicity involved, but he definately did not need one. The Human Rights Commission is set up to allow access to its services without needing legal counsel. That's why people do it all the time.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Human rights my a.. My club, I say who goes in a who doesn't. It's not a human right to party in my club.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Flame Of Liberty

Human rights my a.. My club, I say who goes in a who doesn't. It's not a human right to party in my club.

hmmmmmm - garbage

do you forbid all blacks and jews while you're at it?

If you are open to the public, you are open to the public. You are not open to a few people based on personal characteristics. It is utterly repugnant to suggest that blanket policies on race will cure the ills of your club. Try looking in the mirror first.

Bottom line: This is 2008, not 208. Diversity makes us stronger

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

hmmmmmm - garbage

do you forbid all blacks and jews while you're at it?

If you are open to the public, you are open to the public. You are not open to a few people based on personal characteristics. It is utterly repugnant to suggest that blanket policies on race will cure the ills of your club. Try looking in the mirror first.

Bottom line: This is 2008, not 208. Diversity makes us stronger

I still fail to see where this "right" to enter a private establishment when the owner doesnt want you (gays, blacks, women, little green aliens,...) there (whatever their reason might be) is coming from. Private ownership > some sad board, as far as I am concerned.

[killer_carlson]

exactly fotze.

This isn't a "private club".

If you are going to expect the public to come in fund your business, you invite all the public - whomever they might be.

Make it a private club with memberships, then you open the memberships up to the public as well - whomever they might be.

If you want to restrict who comes into your establishment, invite your friends over to your house, but don't expect them to pay you $4.00 per drink while they are there.

[killer_carlson]

oh, and if you consider a Human Rights Tribunal or Commission to be "some sad board", then no matter where you live you've got your priorities to be in the wrong order.

Try picking up a newspaper and reading the "World" section now and then. I see you're in Australia, you may want to read the section about how Australia won't gag their atheletes when it comes to criticizing China's Human Rights record while the atheletes are competing at the Olympics.

This sort of stuff matters to people - it isn't about "some sad board". Instead, you're just "some sad biggot".

And Human Rights > "some sad biggot" every day of the week my friend.

[Flame Of Liberty]

Originally Posted by fotze

It ceases to be a private club when you desire the publics money. Charge for membership and do things that make the club private and you are fine. Can't have the benefits of the public (i.e. their delicious money) without the drawbacks.

Huh? If the club is mine, it is private (meaning privately owned). Whether I charge for membership or not has nothing to do with it. What kind of an argument is that?

[gildo]

I don't think he was out to get money obviously, like this happens every night many years back a few of my friends and I were denied access into a bar cause "bunch of us people" according to the bouncer "cause trouble last weekend". We overheard a bouncer once tell a bunch of east indian guys "this isn't a brown bar". I'm just glad it was caught on video cause i'm sure worse stuff then this has happened before.

[Sainters7]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

It depends. What do you look like and what do you friends look like that accompany you? Calgary is abhorridly racist, profiling, and their bouncers are extremely prejudiced, arrogant, and unfriendly (to put it mildly) if not downright insulting and despicable. Montreal, Toronto, etc. I never felt a single bad vibe.

I'm white, and so are three buddies I was travelling with when I went to most of those places. I wasn't sticking up for Calgary bouncers, I know they're horrible(I remember a few years back at Metro I saw a guy outside get pushed by some drunkard. Then the bouncer grabbed him(assuming it was a fight), and dropped him face first on the cement, breaking his jaw. It was really, really ugly). Rather what I was trying to say was that alot of the other places I've been, the bouncers have been just as bad as Calgary bouncers. Trust me when I say Edmonton is the EXACT same. Same with Vancouver. I have a black friend here in Edmonton who dresses pretty casually. And when we used to go to Cowboys he knew he had to dress up really nice or he'd never get in. So we'd go in with our sneakers, jeans and t-shirt, meanwhile it'd look like he was going to a job interview.

I think one of the problems with Calgary is there's alot of country & western bars, and this is where you see this type of behaviour the most. Country and western bars, at least from what I've ever seen, are predominantly full of whites. And this is where I've seen the most discrimination from bouncers/doormen, as they seem to want to keep up this ratio. Have you seen this type of behaviour at bars in Calgary without a western theme as much as in places that do, where there tends to be more minorities than in places like Cowboys? Not saying it doesnt happen there too, but I think western bars are pretty famous for it(another reason why I hate them, on top of the already unbearable country music)

[4X4]

Regarding the mini battle: KC & fotze vs FOL, I don't think that even private clubs can discriminate based on race. They'd find themselves in court pretty quickly. There have been a few cases in the news in the last few years where private clubs (in one capacity or another) have denied people something and ended up in a legal battle. Like the church that got sued for not letting the gay couple marry there.

[kdoir345]

i dunno but the past few clubs ive been to have had a pretty large number of "non-white" people in there. So this guy gets shot down for walking up to tequilla in the middle of stampede waering a turban and gets turned down. I know being turned away because of your race isnt cool at all but what does he really expect. That would be like me going to roadhouse on a saturday with a ball cap on getting turned down because thats not the image they want. So am I entitled to a human rights case?

Ive been turned away a number of times because of what im wearing is too casual. I wear a suit and tie to work every single day, the last thing I want to do on a night out to the bar is get all dressed up. I think people just bitch and complain for the reason of bitching and complaining.

it sounds ignorant, but I dont really feel sorry for the guy at all. in my mind he is taking a situation that many many people face each and every weekend, and using something like race (which he can) to make a big deal about it.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by kdoir345

it sounds ignorant, but I dont really feel sorry for the guy at all. in my mind he is taking a situation that many many people face each and every weekend, and using something like race (which he can) to make a big deal about it.

I tend to agree with this. I've been turned away before as well, for what seems like profiling. A couple years ago, I tried to enter a bar with two friends. We all happened to have shaved heads. Denied.

Another friend of mine is a tattoo freak. And he's enormous. He constantly gets turned away if he's wearing anything short-sleeved.

So it's not just the brown people or the asians that get turned away for 'looking like troublemakers'. And I'm tired of people whining every time a business makes an unpopular decision.

[4X4]

Originally Posted by fotze

I would have thought you being italian would get you in all bars instantly, since clubs are made for the italian race.

I don't fit the mold. I don't wear gucci suits and leather shoes. And my hair isn't slicked back. I fly without a gallon of cologne and I don't wear gold medallions or rings or watches.
But I usually do arrive with a belly full of pasta...

[fredr123]

The written decision is now available online: http://albertahumanrights.ab.ca/Rand...spal031708.pdf

I haven't had a chance to read it yet so I'll reserve my comments for now.

Edit: Okay, I've had a chance to read it now. My first impressions? Kinda weak.

Basically, the Panel found the complainant and his witness to be credible and believed everything they said. The Panel found the Respondent to be honest and genuine in most of his testimony but found the bar's response to the allegations to be inadequate. Much was made of the fact that the manager was really busy and didn't have time to look into Human Rights procedures and properly prepare for the hearing. He did little more than ask around if anyone knew anything about what happened that night. He had no first hand knowledge of what occurred. Further, he seemed to place the onus on the complainant to track down the doormen in question or at least provide a good enough description of them that the bar could track them down.

A number of cases were cited where damages were awarded in various Human Rights panels across Canada for patrons who were denied entry to bars and clubs on the basis of race or ancestry. "Morale" damages ranged from $1,500 to $10,000. The Panel was asked to award $3,500 in damages plus interest and travel costs. The Panel instead awarded $5,000 plus interest and travel costs.

Note the complainant was not represented by counsel. The Commission brings the matter forward on his behalf and their own counsel presents the case before the Panel.

[fatso]

Originally Posted by kdoir345

i dunno but the past few clubs ive been to have had a pretty large number of "non-white" people in there. So this guy gets shot down for walking up to tequilla in the middle of stampede waering a turban and gets turned down. I know being turned away because of your race isnt cool at all but what does he really expect. That would be like me going to roadhouse on a saturday with a ball cap on getting turned down because thats not the image they want. So am I entitled to a human rights case?

no actually. Wearing a turban is nothing like wearing a baseball cap. And even if it was, your reasoning that because discrimination exists it shouldn't be argued against is laughable at best.