CrossIron Mills Shopping Centre

[Resolute 14]

20% of the population will only live downtown if the demand is there.

Ultimately, that is what it comes down to.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

20% of the population will only live downtown if the demand is there.

Ultimately, that is what it comes down to.

If it costs you 5x as much in property taxes to live in the suburbs, you'd be amazed at how much demand can be generated.

As Fotze points out, suburban living is subsidized unfairly at the expense of those of us living closer to the core. Plus that cost is going to grow and grow, and we are already looking at a tax deficit from all the retirees that are going to start quitting work in droves in the very near future.

[Thunderball]

Originally Posted by jammies

So having 20% of the population downtown is "forcing everyone into 500-1200 ft condos"? I think your definition of "everyone" is different than the one in the dictionary.

I understand very well that there are plenty of people that want to live in the suburbs (although I laugh at the idea there is a "buffer" between houses - not in any new neighbourhood, where the 8 foot minimum is all you ever get, down to the inch), however there are also plenty of people - like me - that see the advantages of living downtown or near the core. The assumption that because you wouldn't want to live downtown, that therefore increased density would never work, is not a particularly compelling argument.

Well, first, "forcing everyone" is a figure of speech. It also goes beyond downtown and into the pushing of TODs without adding any real capacity to the LRT.

Secondly, an 8 foot buffer is still a buffer. I have my space, and I have my yard. Say what you will... I don't hear my neighbors having sex from my house or anything like that... however, I have from my friend's condo... its actually a running gag.

Third... I never said increased density wouldn't work... I said the density buildup is unpopular to a large enough percentage of the population for the typical single detached home to not be abandoned or forced to a very expensive backburner. Add density for people like you, but don't abandon the single detached house for people like me. Both can co-exist without forcing the house into a demand induced price point that is beyond belief.

[Svartsengi]

CrossIron Mills Shopping Centre with hotel, racetrack and lots of parking eh.

The Calgary Flames should build a new arena in Balzac too.

[Bill Bumface]

Originally Posted by Svartsengi

The Calgary Flames should build a new arena in Balzac too.

I would be very, very pissed off if they did.

[I-Hate-Hulse]

Originally Posted by Addick

From personal travelling experiences in the States, I don't see these sorts of brands opening up regular version stores when they are already available in more central locations. For example, why didn't H&M wait to open up at Crossiron Mills rather than open a new store in Sunridge Mall this coming Thursday. If these sorts of brands do open set up shop in Crossiron Mills I have to believe that they will be outlet stores rather than regular stores.

Heres the thing - outlet stores are generally considered to be lower end, not high end. They're generally in out of the way locations to take advantage of cheaper rent, and less deluxe surroundings. CrossIron with the racetrack and "entertainment" is clearly pushing for mid to high end status. That's why I don't think you'll see them stock the place with a bunch of outlets, but your usual array of stores found anywhere else with 3 or so "unique" stores. But time will tell!

I wouldn't be surprised to see H&M also open a place in Balzac. Retail space to build a "proper" H&M is limited here in Calgary - I've been to the H&M in London / Madrid / Lisboa and the suckers are like 5 levels each there. But I'm also not surprised to see them open in Sunridge. Their demographic may not have a car to get out to Balzac, and H&M has some aggressive expansion plans. I think I read that Sunridge has some good sales per sq ft as the only "real" mall in the NE.

Here was an interesting quote from the Herald today:

Chinook Centre is undergoing a $275-million expansion that will add 180,000 square feet to the mall and 80 new stores, 30 of which are global brands not currently in the Calgary area.


Southcentre is undergoing a $102-million redevelopment, and there's a new multimillion-dollar mall development north of Calgary in Balzac, tied in with a racetrack/entertainment project.


The Deerfoot Meadows retail site has a new owner, who plans to add an additional 500,000-square-foot retail development there. The site's previous owners had the area pegged for high-end retailers.

Lerner said the company looked at some of the suburban malls in Calgary when it decided to expand in this market, but Holt Renfrew felt it was important to stay downtown with a flagship location.
"As we look much longer term, we would consider maybe having a second store (in a suburban mall) as well, similar to what we do in Toronto. That would be further down the road," she said. "We're not for the moment seriously considering it, but it's something that we talk about and it was part of our thoughts when we decided to build a flagship in the downtown core, and as the city grows and as our business grows we would look to expand our presence in the Calgary market."

30 new unique global brand stores for Chinook? That's amazing, and gives a reason for people to go there vs any other mall. What that and the failure of the Deerfoot Meadows luxury lane shows is that these types of goods (or mid market ones like an Apple Store) have to be centrally located - doubt you'd see these places in Balzac. Or have them survive long term.

[BlackArcher101]

I don't know why some people are saying this Balzac mall won't work. Hell, everyone I know here in Red Deer can't wait until it's done. A lot easier access than West Ed or other malls.

[Knut]

One hour from Red Deer.... 10 Minutes from Airdrie...

As Well, once a NE ring road is completed, people from Strathmore/Brooks will not have to fight city traffic to go to a big shopping mall.

THere is a lot of new population there, that does not have to make it a day trip and fight traffic all day in the city.

I think the Mall will be quite successful.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

Heres the thing - outlet stores are generally considered to be lower end, not high end. They're generally in out of the way locations to take advantage of cheaper rent, and less deluxe surroundings. CrossIron with the racetrack and "entertainment" is clearly pushing for mid to high end status. That's why I don't think you'll see them stock the place with a bunch of outlets, but your usual array of stores found anywhere else with 3 or so "unique" stores. But time will tell!

Mills malls are generally a mix of high end, outlet and both. They tend to locate on the outskirts because they can draw people regardless of where they are. They draw from a far wider area then the average mall.

There's going to be plenty of outlets at CrossIron and plenty of unique retailers.

I wouldn't be surprised to see H&M also open a place in Balzac. Retail space to build a "proper" H&M is limited here in Calgary - I've been to the H&M in London / Madrid / Lisboa and the suckers are like 5 levels each there. But I'm also not surprised to see them open in Sunridge. Their demographic may not have a car to get out to Balzac, and H&M has some aggressive expansion plans. I think I read that Sunridge has some good sales per sq ft as the only "real" mall in the NE.

The thing with H&M is that they have a whole bunch of different departments with most locations not having all the departments. They could have two locations in Calgary and not have any common merchandise between the two stores.

[Smyth's Skate]

Here is an article regarding policing of the area that was in the Airdrie Echo yesterday.

http://airdrieecho.com/News/383478.html

The City of Airdrie is taking steps well in advance of the opening of the Balzac mall to make sure the city is not subsidizing the policing of the region’s megaproject.

While the opening of the mall and horse racing track is at least a year-and-a-half to two years away, Alderman Shawn Howard has serious issues with the M.D. of Rocky View’s policing plan – or lack thereof.

The megamall is expected to have 40,000 to 50,000 visits per day, not to mention the 5,000 staff members working at the mall, racetrack, casino and hotels. The amount of people going through the area in a day will be more than the population of Airdrie. That has Howard concerned.

[Addick]

Originally Posted by I-Hate-Hulse

CrossIron with the racetrack and "entertainment" is clearly pushing for mid to high end status.

They maybe pushing for high-end stores but that doesn't mean high-end stores will go there. High-end stores tend to prefer central, vibrant, cosmopolitan, and popular locations; places like Stephen Avenue, the future Eau Claire, and Chinook (while not central it is very popular as well as attractive). While Balzac may be close to a very important highway junction, they don't have most of the characteristics high-end stores look for in potential locations. They don’t even have the two most important things desired by mid-end stores, a pool of customers and, more importantly, labour.

I already talked about how there is a lack of customers as a mid-end stores located at Xiron Mills would be competing with their other city based stores for the same pool of customers, but another problem retailers are concerned about is how would potential employees get to work? Since the majority of employees will most likely be coming from Calgary there is a major problem as there will no transit service to the mall from Calgary and the auto-commute would be long not to mention relatively-expensive.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Addick

I already talked about how there is a lack of customers as a mid-end stores located at Xiron Mills would be competing with their other city based stores for the same pool of customers, but another problem retailers are concerned about is how would potential employees get to work? Since the majority of employees will most likely be coming from Calgary there is a major problem as there will no transit service to the mall from Calgary and the auto-commute would be long not to mention relatively-expensive.

That's a good point and one that I'm too dumb to ever have considered.

They have a hard enough time getting staff (let alone decent staff) in retail as it is. If you can't get enough people to work at a mall that is a 5 minute walk from a train station in the city how will they get people to drive out to the sticks and back every day to shill sunglasses and flavoured popcorn?

[Resolute 14]

Stories in both papers about the mall:

Sun:
http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...48066-sun.html

Herald:
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...2-33d6f5cbf090

Herald photo gallery:
http://www.canada.com/calgaryherald/...=052208_balzac

[Agamemnon]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

That's a good point and one that I'm too dumb to ever have considered.

They have a hard enough time getting staff (let alone decent staff) in retail as it is. If you can't get enough people to work at a mall that is a 5 minute walk from a train station in the city how will they get people to drive out to the sticks and back every day to shill sunglasses and flavoured popcorn?

Well... for starters the teeny-boppers (who can drive) will be dying to work at that mall. Think of the foodcourt! Think of the prestige! I don't think they'll have too much of a problem getting kids working in the stores.

[Resolute 14]

Especially those from Airdrie, given it is less than five minutes away.

but 3500 staff in the mall alone?

[Clarkey]

Originally Posted by Reaper

Finally expanding outwards? Perhaps you've missed the fact that Calgary has been sprawling outwards for decades. Also, I wouldn't count on Calgary gaining any new land for a while. When they announced the last annexation deal they mentioned that the city now had enough land to account for 50 years of growth or something along those lines.

I know you love to chime in with your monologues but you should have taken a few seconds to notice the sarcasm before responding.

[browna]

Originally Posted by Agamemnon

Well... for starters the teeny-boppers (who can drive) will be dying to work at that mall. Think of the foodcourt! Think of the prestige! I don't think they'll have too much of a problem getting kids working in the stores.

Question remains is for how long? Working 18 hours a week at 12$/hr, but minus the cost of gas of a 80k round trip those 3 days a week at 1.30$L gas....and then come winter when you have to make the 1h trek up there for 9am on Tuesday with snow drifts coming?

And those are the ones wo have mommy and daddy's Taurus to drive in the first place.

I think, in this retail market, that's a legitimate concern. It may be the cool place to be initially if you're in retail, but come a few months in, and/or when winter hits, the shine is off that apple, and it makes finanical and logitiscal sense to work at the Chinook location for 1$ less an hour.

My wife works retail again now, the premium for her driving the Deerfoot for over 1.5h round trip everyday would have to be very substainal over what she's making now as a store manager in a mall in the south part of town where its a 30min round trip...and I don't think we'd think that hassle, time, and amount of driving on the nutso Deerfoot roads is worth that premium anyway.

[DementedReality]

i see a lot of arrogance in this thread ... who says living in the suburbs reduces someones standard of living?

who says going to a mall is a "bad" thing?

if there wasnt a market for CrossIron .. beleive you me, no one would have invested in building it.

and living in the suburbs is just fine, thank you very much.

[The Ditch]

Airdrie doesn't want to pay for the policing? Ha, that's rich, it goes along with my idea that Calgary needs to put up tollbooths for the commuters outside of Calgary (Airdrie, Cochrane, Okotoks, etc.) who help destroy all of the roads, take up parking, pollutions.

[BuzzardsWife]

I can't wait for the mall now that I have found out about some of the stores coming! You can never have too many malls.