Conservatives try to bribe independent MP?

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I was just pointing out how it's funny that Harper would slap the Liberals with a libel suit for saying the exact same thing that Dona Cadman said while not doing the same thing to her. I also find it funny how on the same day that the libel suit was declared, Dona Cadman issues a statement proclaiming that she believes Harper is innocent... Things that make you go "hmmmmmm".

Not quite true actually. Both the book and the Cadman's are saying that two unnamed conservatives made the offer while the Liberals have basically said Harper is responsible for the bribe attempt and any subsequent coverup. Further, they said so with no proof whatsoever that there ever was a bribe attempt. That's why they are being sued.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Not quite true actually. Both the book and the Cadman's are saying that two unnamed conservatives made the offer while the Liberals have basically said Harper is responsible for the bribe attempt and any subsequent coverup. Further, they said so with no proof whatsoever that there ever was a bribe attempt. That's why they are being sued.

Actually, the book and the Cadman's are saying that two unnamed Conservatives made the offer, AND the recordings the author made while interviewing Harper imply that Harper was aware of it (just not the specifics). Being aware of it and letting it happen makes him responsible. This of course, assumes that the admissions Harper made while being recorded were not out of context... something I hope the investigation can uncover.

I haven't read or heard anything where the Liberals said anything else, except that they are saying that Harper would be ultimately responsible if he knew and didn't investigate or passively let it happen (which, as party leader, he would be).

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Actually, the book and the Cadman's are saying that two unnamed Conservatives made the offer, AND the recordings the author made while interviewing Harper imply that Harper was aware of it (just not the specifics). Being aware of it and letting it happen makes him responsible. This of course, assumes that the admissions Harper made while being recorded were not out of context... something I hope the investigation can uncover.

I haven't read or heard anything where the Liberals said anything else, except that they are saying that Harper would be ultimately responsible if he knew and didn't investigate or passively let it happen (which, as party leader, he would be).

Harper is NOT on tape saying that he knew a bribe had been made, or that an offer of a $1M life insurance policy was made.

What he did say is that he knew that a financial offer was made, but didn't know the details. That financial offer could be, as has been consistently stated by Harper, an offer to help finance any re-election campaign, something that is perfectly legal and is done by all parties (there are rules, but the transferring of funds from the national party to the locals to help defray campaign costs is well documented).

Nothing Harper said on that tape, a tape that has been doctored according to at least one media report and that is being sold by the author for $1500 a pop, is conclusively damaging to Harper at all.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by old-fart

Harper is NOT on tape saying that he knew a bribe had been made, or that an offer of a $1M life insurance policy was made.

What he did say is that he knew that a financial offer was made, but didn't know the details. That financial offer could be, as has been consistently stated by Harper, an offer to help finance any re-election campaign, something that is perfectly legal and is done by all parties (there are rules, but the transferring of funds from the national party to the locals to help defray campaign costs is well documented).

I realize that Harper never said on the tape that a bribe had been made, however, it was the Cadman's who suggested that the "financial offer" referred to on the tapes was a $1 million life insurance policy. When asked about the "financial offer" referred to in the book, the Cadman's said it was a bribe.

Therefore, if the tapes were right in that Harper knew of a financial offer, and if the Cadman's are right that the financial offer was a $1 million life insurance policy, then that shoots your theory down that it was something else (such as election financing). Even IF Harper didn't know the specifics, he would have been reponsible for finding out the specifics of any financial offer to Cadman. That's the whole point of why this needs to be investigated - Dona Cadman didn't say it was election financing or anything else - she said "life insurance".

Someone is lying.

[old-fart]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

I realize that Harper never said on the tape that a bribe had been made, however, it was the Cadman's who suggested that the "financial offer" referred to on the tapes was a $1 million life insurance policy. When asked about the "financial offer" referred to in the book, the Cadman's said it was a bribe.

Therefore, if the tapes were right in that Harper knew of a financial offer, and if the Cadman's are right that the financial offer was a $1 million life insurance policy, then that shoots your theory down that it was something else (such as election financing). Even IF Harper didn't know the specifics, he would have been reponsible for finding out the specifics of any financial offer to Cadman. That's the whole point of why this needs to be investigated - Dona Cadman didn't say it was election financing or anything else - she said "life insurance".

Someone is lying.

But again, Dona Cadman wasn't in the room so all she really knows is what she thinks she may or may not have heard well after the fact.

Was Chuck lying when he was on TV and the radio saying there was no bribe immediately after the fact? Why would Dona Cadman run for the PCs if she believed they were part of a bribery scam? Who in their right mind believes they can get a $1M life insurance policy on a terminally ill person with months to live? Why, if this happened two and a half years ago is it only now becoming public, weeks or days before the release of a book that stands to make the author (and the Cadman's) more money if the book sales are higher?

[jolinar of malkshor]

No charges to be laid in Cadman affair: RCMP

The RCMP have concluded their investigation into allegations of bribery in the so-called Cadman affair, saying there is no evidence to file charges.
Liberal justice critic Domenic LeBlanc had asked the RCMP to investigate allegations that the Conservatives had offered late Independent MP Chuck Cadman a $1 million insurance policy. The alleged offer was for his support on a crucial budget vote that threatened to topple the Liberal minority government in May 2005.
"We have said from the beginning that nothing improper happened here," said Conservative MP James Moore, who has handled many of the questions about the Cadman affair in the House of Commons.

http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/...mp-cadman.html

[FlamesAddiction]

What the RCMP saying is that the allegations cannot be proven. They aren't saying that the allegations were not without merit.

I think everyone knew this was one person's word against another's where the #1 witness was deceased. An inquiry was still the right thing to do considering that Dona Cadman's book made a very serious allegation.

That libel suit should be the next thing thrown out.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What the RCMP saying is that the allegations cannot be proven. They aren't saying that the allegations were not without merit.

I think everyone knew this was one person's word against another's where the #1 witness was deceased. An inquiry was still the right thing to do considering that Dona Cadman's book made a very serious allegation.

That libel suit should be the next thing thrown out.

And the #1 witness saying before his death that there was no such offer.

[peter12]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What the RCMP saying is that the allegations cannot be proven. They aren't saying that the allegations were not without merit.

I think everyone knew this was one person's word against another's where the #1 witness was deceased. An inquiry was still the right thing to do considering that Dona Cadman's book made a very serious allegation.

That libel suit should be the next thing thrown out.

What does that mean? There isn't enough evidence to file charges. So that means there is conclusively no merit to the allegations.

All the more reasons to proceed with the libel suit. The Liberals haven't done a good piece of politicking during Dion's leadership, but have repeatedly resorted to personal attacks against members of the Conservative Party. It's pathetic.

[Bobblehead]

It has been investigated, so I am fine with letting this story fade away.

All sides should just drop it.

The Liberals because, unless there is some evidence they are withholding, there is nothing more that can be done.

The Conservatives because, even if they are 100% innocent, pursuing any action that has their name in the same headline as "Bribery" is not good politics.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by peter12

What does that mean? There isn't enough evidence to file charges. So that means there is conclusively no merit to the allegations.

All the more reasons to proceed with the libel suit. The Liberals haven't done a good piece of politicking during Dion's leadership, but have repeatedly resorted to personal attacks against members of the Conservative Party. It's pathetic.

But there was certainly enough evidence to warrant an investigation, therefore making an allegation was appropriate. You can't have an inquiry without an allegation.

To use a different example, if someone is put on trial for murder but gets off because the case is only circumstantial, it doesn't mean that the police were wrong for making allegations.

It's good that there was no evidence of wrong doing. It is better for everyone if the PM and the opposition can focus on governing.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

But there was certainly enough evidence to warrant an investigation, therefore making an allegation was appropriate. You can't have an inquiry without an allegation.

To use a different example, if someone is put on trial for murder but gets off because the case is only circumstantial, it doesn't mean that the police were wrong for making allegations.

It's good that there was no evidence of wrong doing. It is better for everyone if the PM and the opposition can focus on governing.

There wasn't even a trial. Anyone can make an allegation.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

What the RCMP saying is that the allegations cannot be proven. They aren't saying that the allegations were not without merit.

I think everyone knew this was one person's word against another's where the #1 witness was deceased. An inquiry was still the right thing to do considering that Dona Cadman's book made a very serious allegation.

That libel suit should be the next thing thrown out.

Well she knows how to sell her book...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

Well she knows how to sell her book...

Sorry, it's not actually her book. It's what she told the person who wrote the book.

She actually stood to lose on this because she wants to run as a Conservative.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Sorry, it's not actually her book. It's what she told the person who wrote the book.

She actually stood to lose on this because she wants to run as a Conservative.

I suppose, you know running as a conservative in the Greater Vancouver area is all but a guarantee ticket to Ottawa...

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

I suppose, you know running as a conservative in the Greater Vancouver area is all but a guarantee ticket to Ottawa...

Well, her husband had the riding as a Conservative and an independent. I would think that she has a really good chance on winning based on her name alone.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Well, her husband had the riding as a Conservative and an independent. I would think that she has a really good chance on winning based on her name alone.

Good point...it all doesnt add up.

1. Husband says no bribe
2. Torries say no bribe
3. Wife says bribe in her new book (forgive me for thinking that is convenient)
4. Wife wants to run as conservative

it makes no sense...

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

But there was certainly enough evidence to warrant an investigation, therefore making an allegation was appropriate. You can't have an inquiry without an allegation.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...6?hub=Politics

The Mounties said they found no evidence to support the allegations of bribery laid out in a biography of Cadman, who died in 2005.

I take this to mean that not only was there not enough evidence to warrant charges, as per the CBC article earlier, but there was not enough evidence to really warrant an investigation and the allegation was enough.

Hopefully Dion and the Liberals will be more cautious with what they say from here on.

[CaptainCrunch]

Between the Cadman stuff and the Liberals attack on Bernier's personal life, it shows that the Liberals are a desperate party trying to cover Dion's ineffectiveness and his tax heavy platform, thats not going to capture any voters.

They just need to toss Dion, and rebuild their party. Its amazing how fast the Liberal party has become a laughing stuck with no real credibility.

They might want to push for an election so that they can lose badly and have a reason to toss Dion under the bus.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Between the Cadman stuff and the Liberals attack on Bernier's personal life, it shows that the Liberals are a desperate party trying to cover Dion's ineffectiveness and his tax heavy platform, thats not going to capture any voters.

They just need to toss Dion, and rebuild their party. Its amazing how fast the Liberal party has become a laughing stuck with no real credibility.

They might want to push for an election so that they can lose badly and have a reason to toss Dion under the bus.

Apparently that may be in the works. The CPC have ordered all there signs in anticipation for a summer election as they think the Liberal Back Benchers are going to bring down the government to get rid of Dion.

But that is just speculation.